MSP Colonel's Son in Hot Water - Drunk with Guns

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Do you have a site or source for the shopping mall claim? I have no information on this and am interested in learning, or is this covered under a binding signage law? At one point any public facilities banning guns had to provide the ability to check guns while visiting. The one man think tank formerly from MA made an issue of this trying to check his gun at a public library in AZ.
My source is the person who it happened to, twice. I met him at an NE Shooters training class back in 2004 and have been in touch with him ever since then. He's a genuine gun person and thus, I never did any further research.
 

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Handgunlaw.us claims that signage is legally enforceable, but doesn't provide a citation. I don't consider them definitive, but I'm not about to invest the time to investigate further. You could contact our friend in AZ who forced the library to comply with the law, as I'm sure that he'd know the citation for that.
 

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I found the law, but no reference to the penalty or classification (violation/misdemeanor). It appears that being a non-resident of AZ is a recognized by statute affirmative defense to the charge.

One needs to consider the consequences of violating a sign. The last I checked MN had binding signage, but the penalty was $25 and the law specifically said forfeiture of the gun could not be imposed as the penalty. I think it also protected the carry permit from being revoked as well.

The library was because "public facilities" (i.e., govt) must provide a gun checking service if they ban guns. The friend is CD Tavares, a one-man think tank who used to live in MA who now is the proprietor (with his wife) of the Liberty Haven Ranch. One of the nicest and smartest people you will ever meet.

That's him on the right:

1653705947676.png
 
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Rob Boudrie

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My source is the person who it happened to, twice. I met him at an NE Shooters training class back in 2004 and have been in touch with him ever since then. He's a genuine gun person and thus, I never did any further research.
Did he mention what happened to him when he was caught?
 

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BTW, how y'all gonna feel if the trial court rules that there is such a thing as
"too drunk to control"?

It could only get better if the SJC end up with their mitts on it
and establish it as case law statewide.

So he was DUI, intoxicated while in the possession of a weapon, not having full control of the weapon, improper storage. He gets to walk and with a suspended CC which he will gain back. Anyone else would be in lockup and waiting for the judge. He got the clerk to drive 2 hours to hear his special case. Yeah nothing to see here folks.
They used a substitute magistrate (from Lawrence? some border town)
because the local guy wanted nothing to do with the case.

Now if the game plan was to broom the case, why would the local guy punt?
If word got out that it was a crony deal, whichever magistrate got the case
would get just as much heat - no matter whether they came from
Greater Barnstable or Lawrence.

I infer the local guy didn't want to play along, but either wasn't willing to burn bridges
by throwing the book at the son, or was informed by the hackarama that it would not be healthy
to convict the son of the head of the State Police. So maybe they imported someone
who would play along.

Maybe not; maybe it was a legit conflict of interest,
and passing the buck was the ethical thing to do.

I know of an unconnected civilian who drew a 2 year CWOF for improper storage in his vehicle on university property. He even got his LTC back without a fight.
Was the yellow journalist media banging the drums about the case
on regional talk radio and the most uppity muckraking blog in the state?

Being a victim of theft is not enabling.
Leave your keys in the ignition and a bottle of scotch in the passenger seat,
and then disclaim all responsibility when the car is stolen and kills someone.

News Flash II: Mr. Howard Carr is not too sharp.
If you know where every single other reporter get the eleet gun law knowledge
that they display whenever they open their yaps,
I'll pass the pointer along.

(Howie picks up discarded soda cans for the nickel deposit.
I don't think he's gonna spring for putting one of NES's lawyers on retainer
to consult on gun stories).

ETA:
He's utter death on hypocrisy,
and has memorized every hack's in-laws' surnames
(so that he can recognize nepotism in his sleep).

I'd have figured you'd like that.

So, you'd want to prosecute those folks for following the law. 🤔
A bungalow next to my sister-in-law's has some kind of short wire vertical
antenna sticking out of the peak of the house. NFW does it have proper
grounding and lightning protection. If there's no law about antenna safety,
when that house burns down and takes a few of the neighbors' along with it,
does the dumbass who installed what is effectively a lightning rod bear any responsibility?

I’m dumbfounded by how he got out of DUI in conjunction with the weapons. Anyone else would not be as lucky.
Are you saying that any other son of the head of the MSP would be treated differently?
 
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Len-2A Training

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I found the law, but no reference to the penalty or classification (violation/misdemeanor). It appears that being a non-resident of AZ is a recognized by statute affirmative defense to the charge.

One needs to consider the consequences of violating a sign. The last I checked MN had binding signage, but the penalty was $25 and the law specifically said forfeiture of the gun could not be imposed as the penalty. I think it also protected the carry permit from being revoked as well.

The library was because "public facilities" (i.e., govt) must provide a gun checking service if they ban guns. The friend is CD Tavares, a one-man think tank who use to live in MA who now is the proprietor (with his wife) of the Liberty Haven Ranch. One of the nicest and smartest people you will ever meet.

That's him on the right:

View attachment 620676
I really miss CD!
Did he mention what happened to him when he was caught?
Caught? Back then everyone including GOAL's attorneys thought that there was a legitimate competition exemption. And we did hold a competition in that class. Once most of us found out differently (GOAL still stuck to their old interpretation however), NE Shooters moved all operations to Pelham.
 
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How about we punish criminals who steal from people, rather than their victims?

Furthermore, even if the guns had been stored in compliance with MA law (in a locked case), that wouldn’t have prevented someone from stealing the cases and breaking into those cases at their leisure. MA firearms transportation law is virtue signaling at its worst. It does nothing to actually increase safety. All it does is provide the state with an opportunity to punish gun owners.

Was public safety increased or reduced by what the young man chose to do, you see no negligence in the alleged willful actions of the accused ??
 

Rob Boudrie

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I really miss CD!

Caught? Back then everyone including GOAL's attorneys thought that there was a legitimate competition exemption. And we did hold a competition in that class. Once most of us found out differently (GOAL still stuck to their old interpretation however), NE Shooters moved all operations to Pelham.

As to "caught" I was referring to the post about the person from AZ who reportedly had the AZ mall/binding signage thing "happen to him twice".

Regarding your post:

This is the rare case where the as-applied interpretation seems to be opposite the technical wording. That practice usually works against us - for example, few cops actually understand that the school ban does not included guns not "one one's person" (for example, locked in the trunk of a car). I recently read a news article about someone who was charged because they were not in-state for a match and had a gun.

Wesson v. Fowler makes it more interesting. The reason the exemption is believed not to apply is because one needs a permit from a state that does not issue permits to drug convicts or felons. But, there may be states that will not issue a permit to anyone convicted of a drug other than marijuana. Since the First Circuit has already found it unconstitutional to ban firearms possession because of a minor marijuana conviction, it is not a stretch to expect it would apply to someone with a permit from a state that issues permits to tokers.

I would expect the odds to be much more favorable for someone in MA for a competition to be much better than someone without that defense.

I am amazed to see how much "fill in the blank with assumptions you want to be true" I see from some people. For example, people from states that do not require any permit claiming that it "is the same as having a permit" for the sake of that law.

As to GOAL's position - the only safe position to take is to publish the text of the law and tell anyone requiring further clarification to hire legal counsel.

BUT, this is one of those "if you play the game, you take your chances".
 
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Len-2A Training

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Rob,

Meaning that the friend had his car broken into twice and in both cases they found his gun in the glovebox. He's the one who told me that malls in AZ are posted and the law gives meaning to posted private businesses, so that he was in compliance with that law.
 

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Was public safety increased or reduced by what the young man chose to do, you see no negligence in the alleged willful actions of the accused ??
His actions did not have any impact public safety. As I mentioned previously, but you apparently didn't read it, locking up your guns in a case while transporting or storing them does nothing to reduce the chances of them being stolen. A thief would just steal the case and then open it later.

Who was hurt by his actions? Answer: no one.

As we have mentioned previously, only a couple states have a legal requirement to lock up your guns while transporting or storing them. You need to get out of Massachusetts more often. Across the country many people leave guns in their cars all the time.

Just because you think a prudent person should take action X doesn't mean that someone who doesn't take action X should face criminal punishment.
 
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Junior314

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Was public safety increased or reduced by what the young man chose to do, you see no negligence in the alleged willful actions of the accused ??
By your logic why carry guns? Or have steak knives... or axes... or anything dangerous. They all potentially "reduce" public safety. Better yet we should stop driving and probably walk everywhere because cars are super duper dangerous to public safety.




download.jpg
 

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His actions did not have any impact public safety. As I mentioned previously, but you apparently didn't read it, locking up your guns in a case while transporting or storing them does nothing to reduce the chances of them being stolen. A thief would just steal the case and then open it later.
The legislative rationale for locked storage in Massachusetts is child safety not theft prevention.
That's why valid locking systems have to merely require tools to defeat them -
not be tool-resistant or tool-proof.
 

M1911

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The legislative rationale for locked storage in Massachusetts is child safety not theft prevention.
That's why valid locking systems have to merely require tools to defeat them -
not be tool-resistant or tool-proof.
The legislative rationale is a bunch of crap. Do you lock up the gasoline for your lawn mower? Your lighter? Your bleach?

Some years back AWARE got a bunch of gun lock boxes. They then asked a couple of my friend's kids (age 10 and under) to try to open the lock boxes. The elder one asked "can I use a Sawzall?" The response was negative. But armed with a screwdriver they opened all the boxes.

I use 3 tumbler combination locks on my cases. So they have 1000 possible combinations. Most kids age 10+ will get that open in at most 15 minutes, without a tool -- 0-0-0, didn't open; 0-0-1, didn't open; 0-0-2....
 

whacko

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The legislative rationale is a bunch of crap. Do you lock up the gasoline for your lawn mower? Your lighter? Your bleach?

Some years back AWARE got a bunch of gun lock boxes. They then asked a couple of my friend's kids (age 10 and under) to try to open the lock boxes. The elder one asked "can I use a Sawzall?" The response was negative. But armed with a screwdriver they opened all the boxes.

I use 3 tumbler combination locks on my cases. So they have 1000 possible combinations. Most kids age 10+ will get that open in at most 15 minutes, without a tool -- 0-0-0, didn't open; 0-0-1, didn't open; 0-0-2....
Or your cleaning chemicals? Far More children are poisoned than are injured or killed from playing with an unlocked fire arm.
 
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In Mass you do not have to be driving. In the car under the influence , keys in the ignition. That’s DUI
It isn't driving. We all know it.

Most cars don’t have ignition switches that you put keys into anymore.
Doesn't matter. It is STILL NOT DRIVING.

True, they would say he had them on him or access
STILL not driving!

Who do people think they're fooling? Driving a car is a very certain thing. You are either doing it, or not doing it. I suppose if you are asleep at the wheel, with the car running, and the transmission engaged, then that could be considered driving, but I do not think that is what happened here or most anywhere else. Very rarely, I'm sure.
 

M1911

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It isn't driving. We all know it.


Doesn't matter. It is STILL NOT DRIVING.


STILL not driving!

Who do people think they're fooling? Driving a car is a very certain thing. You are either doing it, or not doing it. I suppose if you are asleep at the wheel, with the car running, and the transmission engaged, then that could be considered driving, but I do not think that is what happened here or most anywhere else. Very rarely, I'm sure.
While I agree with you, unfortunately that is not how the law has been applied in MA.
 

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The legislative rationale is a bunch of crap. Do you lock up the gasoline for your lawn mower? Your lighter? Your bleach?
The legislative rationale is what gets some people off from bogus charges
when the defense successfully argues that protracted attack on a trigger lock,
cable lock, or even a glass-fronted locking cabinet does not constitute improper storage.

But if you want to forswear all such defenses in the event that you get jacked up,
we'll be there for you.
51lQJoxtOGL._AC_.jpg
 
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You have problems. Serious problems.

The kid made serious mistakes , these actions directly put the community at risk and it is those who do not/can not or will not recognize this are the ones with the very serious problems.

The level of alleged intoxication and a probable dui is one thing the lack to secure is another both together are a monumental failure of judgement- a revocation is warranted, not permanent but certainly long enough to make the young man 'woke'.
 

whacko

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The kid made serious mistakes , these actions directly put the community at risk and it is those who do not/can not or will not recognize this are the ones with the very serious problems.

The level of alleged intoxication and a probable dui is one thing the lack to secure is another both together are a monumental failure of judgement- a revocation is warranted, not permanent but certainly long enough to make the young man 'woke'.
We fundamentally disagree on the subject of "freedom vs security". I believe that...
.for the most part......there should never be charges made for "victimless crime"......but the penalties for a true crime involving a victim should be much harsher.
 

AHM

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... the cops did find five firearms in the SUV, including two rifles​
and an unregistered Glock 17 that “has been unidentified on the registered owner.”

The quoted text in that excerpt would have come from a Barnstable PD PIO.

If there were two rifles in the front passenger seat area when the guy
was drunk, half hanging out of his car door...
  • Were they lo-cap or hi-cap?
  • Were they full-length; versus takedown models or broken into lowers and uppers?
  • Where were they stored while the son was getting drunk in the pub?
  • Where were they transported between the range and the pub?
An idiot would go into a bar and get drunk, leaving full-length rifles in the front seat
with their stocks in the passenger footwell and their muzzles someplace up by the seat back
(cased or uncased).

A total idiot would transport hi-cap rifles in the passenger compartment
between the range and a bar. Someone remind me - is it even possible to do that legally?
(ETA: I mean, if the car has a trunk or cargo compartment, they have to be transported there.
I don't remember the workaround (if any) if the vehicle lacks those feature).

And if they were hi-cap rifles, what kind of idiot transports them legally (well put-away),
and then moves them into the front seat area either before going in to a bar to get drunk,
or after getting drunk in a bar, before either planning to sleep it off before driving,
or before planning to drive.

The linked article continues...

The Barnstable PD produced two reports on the incident, two months apart.​
We still haven’t seen the first one. The second report says the guns were unloaded.​
No word on how the firearms are described in the initial one that they’re still refusing to release.​
The report we do have in hand was written by one of the responding cops, Eric J. Rogorzenski.​
In an incredible coincidence, the 2018 Town of Barnstable payroll indicates that
both Officer Rogorzesnki and defendant Mason were summer cops –
“Seas Community Service Officers.”

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Crucial questions:
Was the other responding cop working for Barnstable PD in summer 2018?
If so, he would also have recognized the son for who he was.

Will it turn out that Rogorzenski was the initial LEO to encounter the drunken son
while patrolling the pub's parking lot? Because the narrative in the second report
is that the cop started out with "are you OK sir? Do you need medical assistance?".
That's wouldn't have been the opening conversational gambit if the first cop who saw the son
had worked with him all summer long four years ago as summer cops.

Learning the answers to these questions allows us to evaluate the veracity of the
(two) reports. The second report lays out a narrative that it was an arms-length
encounter, not knowing that the drunk was the son of the most senior cop in Mass.
If the cops would have recognized him on sight,
yet the reports totally whistle past that graveyard,
that makes everything worse.

News Flash II: Mr. Howard Carr is not too sharp.
ETA:
He's utter death on hypocrisy,
and has memorized every hack's in-laws' surnames
(so that he can recognize nepotism in his sleep).

I'd have figured you'd like that.
Continuing to quote from that article:

What an interesting crew turned out for Mason’s hearing. Sitting in the back of the courtroom​
was Barnstable Lt. Mark Mellyn, who bought his house in Centerville from the future colonel,​
Christopher Mason.​
Also in attendance was the local soon-to-be-getting-a-pay raise $184,694-a-year Judge John Julian.​
He’s a lifelong payroll patriot, whose brother Jim was a second-generation hack for Billy Bulger,​
Whitey’s little brother.​
Jim Julian still remains on the UMass payroll for $419,259 a year.​

And there's plenty more.

But you knew all this.
 

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OBTW, that post by Howie also ran in the Boston Freaking Herald last Friday.


He frequently if not always shadow-posts his Herald columns on his own web site like that.
When the Herald editors dike out parts that Howie likes because they're too hot,
too long (or too Howie? LOL), he'll include those passages in the self-published edition.
However, whiffreading the Herald column I saw plenty of juicy stuff,
so perhaps this time everything he wrote was flown unredacted for the whole city/state to see.

NESers may think this is a gun law story.
But for the general public, this is portrayed as a police corruption story.
(And payback to MSP for firing officers that wouldn't get the jab).


Ya know, if the rank-and-file staties decide that Howie's fighting for them
by smacking the Colonel around, he may have just sown the seeds for
an entire crop of confidential informants in the State Police.
They're not gonna dime out brother officers about something like
an overtime fraud scandal. But in the future if the brass are ordering them
to (say) broom Yet Another Kennedy DUI Bust,
they may whisper sweet somethings in Howie's ear.

See the profit from pursuing Truth, Justice, and the American Way?
 

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It isn't driving. We all know it.


Doesn't matter. It is STILL NOT DRIVING.


STILL not driving!

Who do people think they're fooling? Driving a car is a very certain thing. You are either doing it, or not doing it. I suppose if you are asleep at the wheel, with the car running, and the transmission engaged, then that could be considered driving, but I do not think that is what happened here or most anywhere else. Very rarely, I'm sure.
The underlying argument is really aimed at Operating Under the Influence. When you are in possession of the keys in the car or if they are in the ignition, or if it’s running you can be arrestion for OUI. In Maine you could be in the middle of your 1000 acre property, drunk in your car and if it’s in gear, they can get you for OUI. States are all over the place on this but it remains what happened with that officers kid was indeed OUI
 
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