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My 1st Holster, Magazine for EDC, Pistol Carry Case.
- Thread starter Stainless 14
- Start date
Worst case an unopened hp will act as a ball but in a generic situation you cannot predict distance of an engagement nor percentage of your successful hits at that distance.
Therefore you always load your defensive weapon with rounds that can provide maximum potential efficiency at the hit.
I have never shot ball rounds outside of the range and not going to charge my habits, but, it is a free country. I just honestly believe it is an incredibly stupid idea.
Personally, I wouldn’t use JHP in a 380. Too little reliable penetration. FMJ is better... but....
Check out LeHigh 90gr Xtreme Penetrator either loaded by them, or by Underwood. It seems gimmicky, but works. Penetrates as much as FMJ, but produces wound channels like hollow point.
www.lehighdefense.com
I’ve seen testing over a few years where some mag springs were shorter, even though they sat in a box. Loaded, but not cycled. But mag springs from a different gun showed no reduction in height.
Check out LeHigh 90gr Xtreme Penetrator either loaded by them, or by Underwood. It seems gimmicky, but works. Penetrates as much as FMJ, but produces wound channels like hollow point.
380 Auto 90gr Xtreme Penetrator Ammunition
www.lehighdefense.com
Not quite. Springs can wear while static in the compressed state. It depends on if the spring reaches its elastic limit. And that totally depends on the design of the spring/magazine dimensions/capacity etc. Don’t assume all manufacturers take that into account when designing their mags.1. Great!
2. No. Compressed springs don't wear, compressing/decompressing is what wears them. No worries.
3. Buy a bigger one than you now think you will need.
Welcome.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
I’ve seen testing over a few years where some mag springs were shorter, even though they sat in a box. Loaded, but not cycled. But mag springs from a different gun showed no reduction in height.
The issue with 380 JHP isn’t that it won’t expand reliably. It’s that you won’t get reliable penetration. It’s a very real issue. FMJ is a better option for 380 than JHP.
As for the lethality of FMJ, it’s not that much worse than JHP for rounds like 9mm or 45ACP. With pistol bullets, you’re just poking holes. The holes may just be a tiny bit bigger with hollow point. Pistol cartridges suck at stopping a threat.. period. The main concern with FMJ during defensive situations is over penetration and hitting bystanders. Otherwise, FMJ would still be acceptable, just not as good.
chris_1001
NES Member
Wrong. But I’m not going to get into an argument.
Sometimes you just need to get through to them.
nuff said.
This is what I use given the availability. Works great espeacily out of short barrels that don’t provide the needed velocity for HP expansion. Tough to get right now though. I have a WTB/WTT add up for it.
chris_1001
NES Member
No kidding? I’ve been on their site and never noticed.
I do have spare mags for carry and home defense. Some are HP and some are ball. None are staggered. But I can pick a mag for a given reason.
I agree no pistol caliber is an 12ga slug.
But I do not agree that FMJ is not much worse than JHP. It is same as going to hunt a grizzly with an AK47.
To each his own, I personally will continue carrying 147gr elite v-crown JHP. Not a 115gr fmj Tula.
What? What does grizzly hunting with an AK have to do with anything?
Yes, FMJ is just a little bit worse than JHP in pistols... because pistol cartridges suck at killing people. They both just poke holes. JHP holes just happen to be a couple millimeters bigger.
That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t carry JHP for rounds bigger than 380acp. They are still better after all. But FMJ will work, and is indeed a better option for weaker cartridges that won’t penetrate enough with hollow points.
Speaking specifically on the 380 in the product description.
“Item 27C/20 is a 90gr. Jacketed Hollow Point bullet. It is traveling over 1,200 fps out of my BDA (Browning Double Action) with its 3.75-inch barrel. We've utilized the very same flash suppressed powders that we've used in our two other 380 auto +P loads. If you like the idea of the extra big hole this expanding load makes in human flesh, we would advise that you load this bullet in your chamber, followed by a magazine full of our non-expanding loads. So, if the first shot does not incapacitate the attacker, your magazine is full of ammo that will, if you can put the bullet in his spine or brain from any angle. Note my "real world" velocities from my personal "real world" pistols”
Let's not drag the military into this. The Den Haag convention explicitly banned expanding ammo, so JHP aren't an option. The only reason why .mil is getting away with open tips in the M118 and mk262 is because those hollow points are for accuracy only, and do not affect expansion/fragmentation.
I know that it would be breaking NES decorum to actually stick to the heart of OPs original post. But to summarize OP got his first carry gun, chambered in 380ACP, which he likes very much. Posted a picture of his mag full of ball ammo.
In his chosen caliber, during this particular ammo shortage I think the recommendation of...”ball ammo that the OP can find and that cycles reliably in his chosen handgun is preferable to JHP which in 380 may or may not penetrate adequately and may or may not expand that well and that may or may not cycle reliably and that the OP currently has a very limited to non existent variety to chose from”...is a good one.
In his chosen caliber, during this particular ammo shortage I think the recommendation of...”ball ammo that the OP can find and that cycles reliably in his chosen handgun is preferable to JHP which in 380 may or may not penetrate adequately and may or may not expand that well and that may or may not cycle reliably and that the OP currently has a very limited to non existent variety to chose from”...is a good one.
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Well, the hollow point in those BTHP absolutely do affect fragmentation. But like you said, the 1899 Hague convention banned expanding bullets. Not hollow points. Fragmentation is not expanding. So the their hollow points are irrelevant.
That said, the U.S. is not a signatory of that section of the 1899 Hague convention. Our conventional forces just opt to follow it.
I think SS1s point was that FMJ will still take down threats. That said, military use cases have different requirements than personal/home defense in the U.S. And there’s no arguing against JHP being more effective.
ProGun
NES Member
There are 380's out there that have some trouble digesting JHP's without fail, like my Ruger LCP. I carry it with only FMJ, it is 100% reliable with FMJ, so that decision wasn't hard to make. I usually carry a Glock anyway.
Speaking of some military habits - you can always get a knife and X tops of your rounds...
effectiveness of a bullet is defined by the speed of a transition of most of its kinetic energy - the faster it stops - more damage it will cause to organs tissues. Hydraulic shock, heat, rapture.
Fast Fmj can be just like a clean stab wound. Same as what I spoke about hunting a bear with an AKM and standard military ammo - it will make a lot of holes in the bear indeed, and bear will die of it of course, eventually, but well after it will rip all the guts out of stupid hunter. So you use an ammo with an adequate stopping power on a bigger game.
Pistol ammo is same.
Pistol ammo is not the same. Sweet Jesus. Its wounding characteristics are much different than rifles. You can’t say they pistol JHP is the same as expanding copper rifle rounds or fragmenting rifle rounds.
You’re right that energy transfer is important. However, JHP pistol rounds STILL just poke holes. For normal handgun cartridges, the energy transfer from JHP is not enough to produce more than a small temporary stretch in tissue (aside from the physical size of the bullet). So, you just have a bullet sized wound channel. Unlike with rifles.
And if you want “stopping power”, for whatever that actually means, on a bear, you better show up with a much larger cartridge than 7.62x39, regardless of bullet type.
Side note: The exception to pistol cartridges and permanent wound channel characteristics is with solid copper bullets using fluid transfer like the LeHigh mentioned earlier. Those have been proven to create permanent wound channels bigger than the physical diameter of the bullets. Their penetrators produce wounding like JHP and their defender bullets can produce wounding channels nearly twice the diameter of JHP. Though, they perform better with higher velocity and so perform best from 9mm, 357 Sig and 10mm.
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fencer
NES Member
You obviously don't hunt. Never hollow points for bear or moose. Don't take my work for it, just Google it. If you had to shoot a bear with an AK, the last thing you would want in your magazine is hollow points.
