My club now asks applicant's race/ethnicity.

Just got a reply from the club president

We were forced to add that to our application by the RDA,( Rural Develelopment Admin.). We received a loan through them for the indoor range . It is one of their requirements to have that info when they audit us each year. I tried to get away with the fact we don't care who the member is as long as they follow the safety rules etc. That didn't fly so we had to add it.

Seems Jose was right, deal with the devil...
 
F the feds. Take no money from them. [angry]

I strongly suspected some form of loan or grant from USDA or USFWS.

Since this is a loan, would repayment break the bondage from the feds? If this is a grant, you guys may be screwed forever.
 
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The court doesn't seem to agree with the club president as to the reason it was covered by anti-discrimination laws:
a. Place of public accommodation. Whether the Club is a place of public accommodation was in dispute at trial, but on appeal the Club does not challenge the determination by the jury that it is. The Club makes its facilities available for hire by the general public for social functions.(6) See generally G. L. c. 272, § 92A.
The relevant portion of the law cited by the court reads
A place of public accommodation, resort or amusement within the meaning hereof shall be defined as and shall be deemed to include any place, whether licensed or unlicensed, which is open to and accepts or solicits the patronage of the general public ...

Ken
 
A place of public accommodation, resort or amusement within the meaning hereof shall be defined as and shall be deemed to include any place, whether licensed or unlicensed, which is open to and accepts or solicits the patronage of the general public ...
That rules out every gun club I have ever been a member of.
 
I did this on one of the first 4473s that asked for this info. I was pissed at the question. Turns out that BATFE wasn't impressed with my protest/humor and demanded that the FFL contact me to "correct" the entry.

If you'd entered any of the standard federal categories (which includes "Other"), there's nothing they could do about it, since federal laws requires that race and ethnicity be based entirely on self-reporting. If you walk in unable to speak a word of anything other than Spanish and list yourself as White or Asian; or if you're pale, blond and blue-eyed and list yourself as Black, they;re prohibited from "correcting" your response in any way.

Ken
 
If you'd entered any of the standard federal categories (which includes "Other"), there's nothing they could do about it, since federal laws requires that race and ethnicity be based entirely on self-reporting. If you walk in unable to speak a word of anything other than Spanish and list yourself as White or Asian; or if you're pale, blond and blue-eyed and list yourself as Black, they;re prohibited from "correcting" your response in any way.

Ken

The 4473 allows you to select multiple choices in the race/ethnicity section. I tick Hispanic and White because I am both.

The whole thing is a cluster-f@#k of political correctness anyway.
 
Every form that asks for that information that I've ever received has either indicated it was not required information and could be left blank or "prefer not to say" was an option.
 
If you'd entered any of the standard federal categories (which includes "Other"), there's nothing they could do about it, since federal laws requires that race and ethnicity be based entirely on self-reporting. If you walk in unable to speak a word of anything other than Spanish and list yourself as White or Asian; or if you're pale, blond and blue-eyed and list yourself as Black, they;re prohibited from "correcting" your response in any way.

Ken

Ken, ~30 years ago when I did this, IIRC it was a "fill in the blank" section of the form. I don't think it had check boxes at all.
 
If you really want to mess with them, check off "other" and then write in "Human" in the box. [laugh]

When I lived in Mass., my LTC was issued with "Place of Birth" listed as a small country in Africa that I'd never heard of until I saw it on the card. I told them it was wrong, so they changed it in the system, but told me they wouldn't issue a new card with the updated info unless I lost the card or it was damaged.

Several times I joked about listing myself as African-American on 4473's, but decided against it because ATF has a habit of railroading people for stupid crap.

The 4473 allows you to select multiple choices in the race/ethnicity section. I tick Hispanic and White because I am both.

The whole thing is a cluster-f@#k of political correctness anyway.

I think it has something to do with them checking conviction/warrant records, where race is almost always mentioned.
 
If you really want to mess with them, check off "other" and then write in "Human" in the box. [laugh]

-Mike



The owner of a now closed gun shop use to tell all his customers to write in Human under race on the fed form. The ATF agents dont like that to much from what I'm told.[smile]

ETA: I was not the owner,just a customer who purchased from him.
 
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I remember just after 9/11 there was an increase of people who simply wrote "american" when asked for their ethnicity.
 
club

we were once asked ethnic make up and the secratary was going to ask every one. I told him stop just write we did not know as we acepted every one.the gov agency never questioned it.
get out of that club quick.it will only get worse.if they dont stand up to the agency they will go down.
I would also notify GOAL as they are your NRA state reps.
every gun owner should belong to the state ass.and GOAL is it.I belong and I am not a resident of Mass and dont ever intend to be again.
That is the camel nose under the tent.you need to make him back out with it missing.
 
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