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Need help with 9mm reloads......wont case gauge?

TZCHRIS

TZCHRIS

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So I'm testing some new loads/new cast bullets. I am getting about 20% that wont gauge properly. See picts, they are very close but about .100" down from the crimp the case is bulging to .3805" dia. (compared to .3765 in good round) I used a black sharpie on one so you can see where the "bulge" is and where it hangs in the case gauge.

I case gauged all processed brass prior to loading and they are all fine, all projectiles were sized to .3555", I even double sized with same results. The COL is perfect on all finished rounds 1.125"

I tried to narrow it down to a specific head stamp to no avail? I even loaded just lead bullets (no powder coat) same results.......I'm at a loss, 20% is not acceptable! I just ran 3K 9mm with almost the same setup with just about 100% perfect results, the only difference was I used X-Treme factory bullets. I played with crimping, from zero to over crimp, same results. My only guess is maybe the bullet seating if not perfectly straight may force the case out? (picture below exaggerated so you get my point)

Any advice will be appreciated! Thanks, Chris
20210929_125356.jpg 20210929_122933.jpg 20210929_123024.jpg 20210929_123211.jpg 20210929_123237.jpg 20210929_123258.jpg 20210929_123358.jpg
 
walter62 said:
did you try to plunk into the actual (removed from pistol) barrel ? Sometimes gauges are
on the tight side of the spec.
Click to expand...
I did, and they "pass" in my Glock 43. I was told that glocks will shoot almost anything so I hate to use that as a gauge. I have some buddies who want to shoot my reloads in other pistols so if they dont case gauge properly I hate to give them some.
For fun I just dialed my COL to 1.100 and getting really good results. I got the 1.125 from Hodgedon, not sure if I should be concerned with .025 change?
 
Your neck size/ measurement looks shy. Jacketed neck diameter should be..........380?

quick google image check

So i'm guessing neck size should be .380 + difference in lead ( .356? .357?) = .382?

Your case gauge might not work with lead either, just a diameter thing.
If you really want to gauge it, drop it in a cz barrel (tight virgin-esque chamber). Everything else should be fine, like your glock (loose chamber like a filthy pirate whore)
 
TrashcanDan said:
Your neck size/ measurement looks shy. Jacketed neck diameter should be..........380?

quick google image check

So i'm guessing neck size should be .380 + difference in lead ( .356? .357?) = .382?

Your case gauge might not work with lead either, just a diameter thing.
If you really want to gauge it, drop it in a cz barrel (tight virgin-esque chamber). Everything else should be fine, like your glock (loose chamber like a filthy pirate whore)
Click to expand...
Why would smaller make it not case gauge?
Most of the "bad" ones are .381+
 
nstassel said:
I wonder if you increased the bell if the bullet would sit more squarely in the case, if that's causing it to bulge?
Click to expand...
I actually just did a test with a few at an exaggerated angle in the bullet seater and they all came out good! Was hoping that was it:(
 
What die set? IIRC, I was never happy with the Lee flaring die because of the lack of stability of the bullet in the mouth of the flared case before seating.

As an aside, one thing I experienced with the Zero JHPC bullets (look like Hornady HAP), is that the bullet itself has sufficient diameter to contact the walls of my case gauge just beyond where the mouth headspaces against. Those bullets look somewhat similar in shape.
 
Im thinking because changing the COL to 1.100 works well, that the issue is where the bullet transition is (see pict)

Maybe I'm getting more powder coat build up in that area on some bulltes?
20210929_140650.jpg
 
meh said:
What die set? IIRC, I was never happy with the Lee flaring die because of the lack of stability of the bullet in the mouth of the flared case before seating.

As an aside, one thing I experienced with the Zero JHPC bullets (look like Hornady HAP), is that the bullet itself has sufficient diameter to contact the walls of my case gauge just beyond where the mouth headspaces against. Those bullets look somewhat similar in shape.
Click to expand...
20210929_142239.jpg
 
TZCHRIS said:
Im thinking because changing the COL to 1.100 works well, that the issue is where the bullet transition is (see pict)
Click to expand...

I've only loaded jacketed and plated bullets for 9mm, but my experience with the Zero JHPC bullets (those Hornady HAP-lookalikes) is that this shape of bullet, the TCFP, really wants to be loaded so that the exposed major diameter of the bullet (that shoulder) is rather close to the case mouth. The Hornady manual puts the COAL of their HAP bullets at 1.069". I've loaded them out to as long as 1.125" in one batch just to fit more of a bulky powder in the case, but a good percentage of those didn't gauge well in the cartridge gauge, and I felt the need to plunk test every one in the barrel I was going to shoot them in. I've loaded a lot more of the same bullets out to 1.090", and that was fine in all my 9mm guns.
 
TZCHRIS said:
I did increase to +.025 I thought this might be too much as Dillon says .020
Click to expand...
Screw measuring flare 😂. Same with crimp.
i’ve loaded tens of thousands of coated bullets and I just flare enough so it’s not scraping off the coding which usually means quite a bit of flare. Make a dummy round then pull the bullet to see. Do this after crimping to so you can see if you’re crushed the bullet or cutting through the coating with the crimp.
I’ve literally never tried to measure crimp or flare.
 
andrew1220 said:
Screw measuring flare 😂. Same with crimp.
i’ve loaded tens of thousands of coated bullets and I just flare enough so it’s not scraping off the coding which usually means quite a bit of flare. Make a dummy round then pull the bullet to see. Do this after crimping to so you can see if you’re crushed the bullet or cutting through the coating with the crimp.
I’ve literally never tried to measure crimp or flare.
Click to expand...

1632952231209.png

TZCHRIS said:
Why would smaller make it not case gauge?
Most of the "bad" ones are .381+
Click to expand...

It'll displace somewhere. Case bulges out is one way. Squishing it down so now theres protrusion is another. If they cycle in your glock, send it!
 
I have tried several settings for my cast/lubed and cast/powder coated. I have two Lee molds, one for 124 grain and one for 125 grain. The 124 grain 99.9% of the time gauge perfectly as do either of my Berry plated 124 grain bullets. The 125 grain always seem to bulge a little and do not gauge well. All cast bullets are sized before lube or powder coat.
1632952514063.png The Lee 124 grain. 1632952542834.png The Lee 125 grain.

With the 124 I always get a nice gap at the end of the brass for head spacing. With the 125 I frequently get some lead or powder coat peeled off and blocking the head space lip created by the brass. All of this is done in the same press with the exact same dies and settings. Works for the cast and Berry's plated.
 
Chaparral66 said:
I have tried several settings for my cast/lubed and cast/powder coated. I have two Lee molds, one for 124 grain and one for 125 grain. The 124 grain 99.9% of the time gauge perfectly as do either of my Berry plated 124 grain bullets. The 125 grain always seem to bulge a little and do not gauge well. All cast bullets are sized before lube or powder coat.
View attachment 527876 The Lee 124 grain. View attachment 527878 The Lee 125 grain.

With the 124 I always get a nice gap at the end of the brass for head spacing. With the 125 I frequently get some lead or powder coat peeled off and blocking the head space lip created by the brass. All of this is done in the same press with the exact same dies and settings. Works for the cast and Berry's plated.
Click to expand...
I was also getting lead/powder peel at base. I opened up the flare and solved it. With factory plates bullets I flare very little, I found I have to open this up a bit with my lead powder coated bullets
 
Just ran 30 with a OAL of 1.100 and all were perfect? Maybe that was my issue? I ran the bottom of the powder range so I should be ok. Need to go test them out.
 
9mm case wall thickens quickly
If you are seating 0.025" deeper then you may be running the base into the thicker wall area.

I get good percentage of gauge failure with cast bullets - plunk fine in the barrels

If others are going to shoot your reloads, first don't do that.
But if you do then keep a few of your gauge failures to do a plunk test with on any guns you run your ammo in.
Or sort out the fails and fire them yourself
 
Glock bulge maybe if its range brass , I use a Lee U die on all my 9mm and 40 Cal range brass got rid of the issue for me anyway.
 
TZCHRIS said:
Just ran 30 with a OAL of 1.100 and all were perfect? Maybe that was my issue? I ran the bottom of the powder range so I should be ok. Need to go test them out.
Click to expand...

Just looked at this again - TC bullets are a pain to load from book data simply because of COAL given instead of seating depth.

A slight difference in cone length between your bullet and the one in the the book can make a difference.

Pressure is effected by both the bullet weight and the effective case volume under the bullet. For similar bullets you will get similar results if you can hold the effective case volume constant.
If you have the bullet length data for the bullet in the load data you can adjust COAL to achieve the same case volume with your bullet.

TLDR: Starting at minimum charge with a 0.025" shorter COAL than the load data for the same bullet weight is safe.
 
TZCHRIS said:
So I'm testing some new loads/new cast bullets. I am getting about 20% that wont gauge properly. See picts, they are very close but about .100" down from the crimp the case is bulging to .3805" dia. (compared to .3765 in good round) I used a black sharpie on one so you can see where the "bulge" is and where it hangs in the case gauge.

I case gauged all processed brass prior to loading and they are all fine, all projectiles were sized to .3555", I even double sized with same results. The COL is perfect on all finished rounds 1.125"

I tried to narrow it down to a specific head stamp to no avail? I even loaded just lead bullets (no powder coat) same results.......I'm at a loss, 20% is not acceptable! I just ran 3K 9mm with almost the same setup with just about 100% perfect results, the only difference was I used X-Treme factory bullets. I played with crimping, from zero to over crimp, same results. My only guess is maybe the bullet seating if not perfectly straight may force the case out? (picture below exaggerated so you get my point)

Any advice will be appreciated! Thanks, Chris
View attachment 527831View attachment 527834View attachment 527835View attachment 527836View attachment 527838View attachment 527839View attachment 527840
Click to expand...
Your pic with the case gage are you showing a case failure or OAL failure.
As noted already use your chamber as a gauge.
Dont worry about other peoples guns . Dont let them shoot your reloads.
I have had problems in the past with the crimp die not getting the bell completely out on shorter brass. Also some brass wall thickness variations have played havoc with my 45 cast loads. Especially when I run harder alloy .

I would clean the case gage really well.
 
Last edited:
mac1911 said:
Your pic with the case gage are you showing a case failure or OAL failure.
As noted already use your chamber as a gauge.
Dont worry about other peoples guns . Dont let them shoot your reloads.
I have had problems in the past with the crimp die not getting the bell completely out on shorter brass. Also some brass wall thickness variations have played havoc with my 45 cast loads. Especially when I run harder alloy .

I would clean the case gage really well.
Click to expand...
I thought I was showing a case failure as my OAL was 1.125 but when I went to 1.100 they case fine.
Lots of people say dont let others shoot your reloads, I wonder what Q would respond to that?
Also, I am about ready to load 40k rounds. Why would I only want them to "fit" one gun, I may buy many more guns before I chew up 40k rounds.
 
TZCHRIS said:
I thought I was showing a case failure as my OAL was 1.125 but when I went to 1.100 they case fine.
Lots of people say dont let others shoot your reloads, I wonder what Q would respond to that?
Also, I am about ready to load 40k rounds. Why would I only want them to "fit" one gun, I may buy many more guns before I chew up 40k rounds.
Click to expand...
It’s just a liability thing. God forbid you’re reloads blows up their gun and/or injures them it could be problematic.
 
TZCHRIS said:
I thought I was showing a case failure as my OAL was 1.125 but when I went to 1.100 they case fine.
Lots of people say dont let others shoot your reloads, I wonder what Q would respond to that?
Also, I am about ready to load 40k rounds. Why would I only want them to "fit" one gun, I may buy many more guns before I chew up 40k rounds.
Click to expand...
Placing the gauge on the table like that is how the COAL part of the gauge works right?
who is Q
 
andrew1220 said:
Qmmo? Not sure

Reloaded Ammo Price List

qmmo.net
Click to expand...
He is a manufacture and has liability insurance. Maybe even other insurance coverage.
Are prepared to buy a new gun for your friends if your reloads damage it. That would be the least to worry about.

It would not surprise me if your reloads work in most guns just not that gauge?
 
mac1911 said:
He is a manufacture and has liability insurance. Maybe even other insurance coverage.
Are prepared to buy a new gun for your friends if your reloads damage it. That would be the least to worry about.

It would not surprise me if your reloads work in most guns just not that gauge?
Click to expand...
Agreed
 

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