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Need help with gun-fearing, liberal friend...

crono1000

crono1000

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Hey guys (and girls), I have an issue with a friend. This guy has been a close friend for years, and he has never shared in my interest in guns, which has always been fine. He recently started a discussion with me a couple weeks back about his thoughts on guns. A few of his thoughts include things such as thinking that there is no need to carry a handgun anywhere other than maybe Chicago or Detroit (any big city with higher crime rates I guess). He believes that there is really no need for a person to need anything that holds a lot of cartridges, as his though is that one bullet will stop somebody. He feels that people can't be trusted with guns in general, and that having a gun on you will only create a feeling of empowerment that can easily turn ugly whenever one chooses...

Obviously, I've tried to direct him differently with multiple arguments for every single un-educated opinion he has, but without really hurting his feelings I have found it almost impossible for him to understand that his thoughts are unfounded, irrational, and naive. Even using small little quirky sayings like, "A gun is like a parachute - you may only need it once, but if you don't have it, you'll never need it again" doesn't even make him wonder. His response, "I know where cliffs are, I don't know where everybody with a gun is." just makes me want to pull my hair out. I'm not trying to sway his opinion, but I would like him to realize that his fear is irrational and his own fear is based on himself and shouldn't be put upon people who are competent and able to carry a gun without such craziness as he feels comes with the territory.

I'm sure others have dealt with this and I'd love any input that might help me get him to come around. And yes, I fully intend on convincing him to come shooting with me... If I can, that is. Haha
 
You should tell him that you understand that he dose not want a gun, but add that you never want to hear about him not being able to defend himself if he is ever attact
 
Change "parachutes" to "seatbelts" or "fire extinguishers".

Offer to take him shooting (I imagine you've tried this)

The fact that you don't know where the guns are is *exactly* why you carry one.

Ugh... I've got a couple friends like that, I feel your pain.
 
A hammer works real well to fix things. Or you could rape his girlfriend (or him) while yelling "pee on me! Pee on me!" Maybe they'll get the point when they're in a situation where they need protection.


On a more serious note, people who legally carry are the most polite people you'll ever meet. We turn the cheek ALOT! An armed society is a polite society. How many of us have bit our tongue because we know the burden of responsibility that comes with "carrying".
 
Patronizingly tell him you understand his psychology, that some men are just naturally diminutive. When he presses for more link him to the anti-gun male.

LET'S be honest. He's scared of the thing. That's understandable--so am I. But as a girl I have the luxury of being able to admit it. I don't have to masquerade squeamishness as grand principle-in the interest of mankind, no less.

A man does. He has to say things like "One Taniqua Hall is one too many," as a New York radio talk show host did in referring to the 9-year old New York girl who was accidentally shot last year by her 12-year old cousin playing with his uncle's gun. But the truth is he desperately needs Taniqua Hall, just like he needs as many Columbines and Santees as can be mustered, until they spell an end to the Second Amendment. And not for the benefit of the masses, but for the benefit of his self-esteem.

He often accuses men with guns of "compensating for something." The truth is quite the reverse. After all, how is he supposed to feel knowing there are men out there who aren't intimidated by the big bad inanimate villain? How is he to feel in the face of adolescent boys who have used the family gun effectively in defending the family from an armed intruder? So if he can't touch a gun, he doesn't want other men to be able to either. And to achieve his ends, he'll use the only weapon he knows how to manipulate: the law.

Of course, sexual and psychological insecurities don't account for ALL men against guns. Certainly there must be some whose motives are pure, who perhaps do care so much as to tirelessly look for policy solutions to teenage void and aggressiveness, and to parent and teacher negligence. But for a potentially large underlying contributor, psycho-sexual inadequacy has gone unexplored and unacknowledged. It's one thing to not be comfortable with a firearm and therefore opt to not keep or bear one. But it's another to impose the same handicap onto others.

People are suspicious of what they do not know-and not only does this man not know how to use a gun, he doesn't know the men who do, or the number of people who have successfully used one to defend themselves from injury or death. But he is better left in the dark; his life is hard enough knowing there are men out there who don't sit cross-legged. That they're able to handle a firearm instead of being handled by it would be too much to bear.

Such a man is also best kept huddled in urban centers, where he feels safer than he might if thrown out on his own into a rural setting, in an isolated house on a quiet street where he would feel naked and helpless. Lacking the confidence that would permit him to be sequestered in sparseness, and lacking a gun, he finds comfort in the cloister of crowds.

The very ownership of a gun for defense of home and family implies some assertiveness and a certain self-reliance. But if our man kept a gun in the house, and an intruder broke in and started attacking his wife in front of him, he wouldn't be able to later say, "He had a knife--there was nothing I could do!" Passively watching in horror while already trying to make peace with the violent act, scheduling a therapy session and forgiving the perpetrator before the attack is even finished wouldn't be the option it otherwise is.

No. Better to emasculate all men. Because let's face it: He's a lover, not a fighter. And he doesn't want to get shot in case he has an affair with your wife.

Of course, it wouldn't be completely honest not to admit that owning a firearm carries with it some risk to unintended targets. That's the tradeoff with a gun: The right to defend one's life and way of life isn't without peril to oneself. And the last thing this man wants to do is risk his life-if even to save it. For he is guided by a dread fear for his life, and has more confidence in almost anyone else's ability to protect him than his own, preferring to place himself at the mercy of the villain or in the sporadically competent hands of authorities (his line of defense consisting of locks, alarm systems, reasoning with the attacker, calling the police or, should fighting back occur to him, thrashing a heavy vase).

In short, he is a man begging for subjugation. He longs for its promise of equality in helplessness. Because only when that strange, independent alpha breed of male is helpless along with him will he feel adequate. Indeed, his freedom lies in this other man's containment.
Click to expand...
Julia Gorin
 
Range time. Period.

Even those less entrenched are not easily swayed by logic alone. They need to get their hands on it and realize they are not the devil. Most quickly realize they were wrong. Not all will of course, but most will. Some need a couple of trips to get over the fear (of screwing up), but usually the first trip leave them curious and questioning their dogma enough to come back.

The issues of realizing there is a "normal" range of human emotion beyond that which overprescribed drugs allow and part of growing up is learning to deal with emotions in healthy ways will resolve themselves as well...

Tread carefully with more powerful cartridges. While some people quickly feel like you are holding them back by not giving them the 88 magnum, its better to be safe than sorry and not have them drop a gun or print their forehead because of recoil. Be a good teacher.

I know people say "why bother", but we at least need to reach societal "competency" so that they are not able to make totally ridiculous claims without question in the public arena. That will only come with familiarity. No one would be able to sell policy based on a flat earth today - guess why?
 
SuspectFailure said:
A hammer works real well to fix things. Or you could rape his girlfriend (or him) while yelling "pee on me! Pee on me!" Maybe they'll get the point when they're in a situation where they need protection.
Click to expand...

That's pretty drastic - I mean, you escalated that FAR above what you needed to.




I like your style!
 
cekim said:
Range time. Period.

Even those less entrenched are not easily swayed by logic alone. They need to get their hands on it and realize they are not the devil. Most quickly realize they were wrong. Not all will of course, but most will. Some need a couple of trips to get over the fear (of screwing up), but usually the first trip leave them curious and questioning their dogma enough to come back.

The issues of realizing there is a "normal" range of human emotion beyond that which overprescribed drugs allow and part of growing up is learning to deal with emotions in healthy ways will resolve themselves as well...

Tread carefully with more powerful cartridges. While some people quickly feel like you are holding them back by not giving them the 88 magnum, its better to be safe than sorry and not have them drop a gun or print their forehead because of recoil. Be a good teacher.

I know people say "why bother", but we at least need to reach societal "competency" so that they are not able to make totally ridiculous claims without question in the public arena. That will only come with familiarity. No one would be able to sell policy based on a flat earth today - guess why?
Click to expand...

This. Take him to the range. Start him off with a 22. Go when there is no one else at the range so it won't be noisy and you get one on one time. Start off with only one round in each mag. Rinse and repeat a few times. Then load 3 in each mag, etc. note how many times he missed putting on paper and work in that if he had only one round he'd be out of luck.
 
First of have agree that the government is run by humans......it is right. Then have himapply his logic you wrote in the first paragraph.
2. He claims to agree that it might be ok to carry in large cities with high crime rates. THEN EXPLAIN TO HIM THE CITIES WITH THE HIGHRST CRIME RATES DONT WANT YOU TO HAVE GUNS OR BANNED THEM ALL TOGETHER.
3. There's really no reaching them. End the conversation by tasking him how he feels about abortion. I will be shocked if he doesn't go on a big woman's rights abortion is ok. Then ask him how he justifies those rights vs a constitutional right?
I laid this down on someone recently and they had zero return on the conversation. Don't debate if abortion is right or wrong.

Until your friend asks to go shooting I'm doubtful you will sway him. Good luck.
 
crono1000 said:
Hey guys (and girls), I have an issue with a friend. This guy has been a close friend for years, and he has never shared in my interest in guns, which has always been fine. He recently started a discussion with me a couple weeks back about his thoughts on guns. A few of his thoughts include things such as thinking that there is no need to carry a handgun anywhere other than maybe Chicago or Detroit (any big city with higher crime rates I guess). He believes that there is really no need for a person to need anything that holds a lot of cartridges, as his though is that one bullet will stop somebody. He feels that people can't be trusted with guns in general, and that having a gun on you will only create a feeling of empowerment that can easily turn ugly whenever one chooses...

Obviously, I've tried to direct him differently with multiple arguments for every single un-educated opinion he has, but without really hurting his feelings I have found it almost impossible for him to understand that his thoughts are unfounded, irrational, and naive. Even using small little quirky sayings like, "A gun is like a parachute - you may only need it once, but if you don't have it, you'll never need it again" doesn't even make him wonder. His response, "I know where cliffs are, I don't know where everybody with a gun is." just makes me want to pull my hair out. I'm not trying to sway his opinion, but I would like him to realize that his fear is irrational and his own fear is based on himself and shouldn't be put upon people who are competent and able to carry a gun without such craziness as he feels comes with the territory.

I'm sure others have dealt with this and I'd love any input that might help me get him to come around. And yes, I fully intend on convincing him to come shooting with me... If I can, that is. Haha
Click to expand...

Ask him why he thinks such terrible things about you like that. And if he says well you are different then ask him if maybe there are more people out there like you instead of what he thinks.
 
Just because he has a dick means he must be a rapist, same as you having a gun means you will become "empowered" and end up shooting someone for no reason.

Tell him to get rid of the bathroom in his house, all his power tools, and anything sharp as plenty of people get hurt by them in homes.
 
Does he carry car insurance because he expects to get in an accident? How about fire extinguishers..is he planning on burning down the house?

Take him to the range and help de-mystify gun ownership and use.
 
Woke up to a great number of responses. Funny ones and very thought ones. I appreciate all of them. Seems to me that getting him to the range is going to be the best thing for him. It's exactly how I got my wife into shooting, as well. She was never political about it like my friend, but she was just as uncomfortable with handling guns. Once she had some time to learn about how to handle them correctly, things started to change. Now she wants to get her LTC as well. She realizes that, she too, should be able to protect herself. Her first thought on this came when I told her she can't have access to the safe. Not even the quick biometric one. She asked how she was supposed to protect herself if I wasn't around - Hook. Line. Sinker.

With my friend, it's a larger uphill battle and I feel I need to give him a small glimpse that he may be wrong on some points before I can get him to the range. Oh, and CadillacGolfer, I fully intend on showing him how his shots were not all kill shots and how one single bullet would have been his death instead. :)

Thanks guys
 
Anyone who doesn't believe you have the right to defend your life, and does everything they can politically to prevent you from being able to defend your life, is not your friend.
 
55 Million gun owners in this country and there is not blood in the streets of every town,city, suburb. Most gun violence is gang/known criminal related.
 
crono1000 said:
Hey guys (and girls), I have an issue with a friend. This guy has been a close friend for years, and he has never shared in my interest in guns, which has always been fine. He recently started a discussion with me a couple weeks back about his thoughts on guns. A few of his thoughts include things such as thinking that there is no need to carry a handgun anywhere other than maybe Chicago or Detroit (any big city with higher crime rates I guess). He believes that there is really no need for a person to need anything that holds a lot of cartridges, as his though is that one bullet will stop somebody. He feels that people can't be trusted with guns in general, and that having a gun on you will only create a feeling of empowerment that can easily turn ugly whenever one chooses...

Obviously, I've tried to direct him differently with multiple arguments for every single un-educated opinion he has, but without really hurting his feelings I have found it almost impossible for him to understand that his thoughts are unfounded, irrational, and naive. Even using small little quirky sayings like, "A gun is like a parachute - you may only need it once, but if you don't have it, you'll never need it again" doesn't even make him wonder. His response, "I know where cliffs are, I don't know where everybody with a gun is." just makes me want to pull my hair out. I'm not trying to sway his opinion, but I would like him to realize that his fear is irrational and his own fear is based on himself and shouldn't be put upon people who are competent and able to carry a gun without such craziness as he feels comes with the territory.

I'm sure others have dealt with this and I'd love any input that might help me get him to come around. And yes, I fully intend on convincing him to come shooting with me... If I can, that is. Haha
Click to expand...

The ones who feel that people can't be trusted with guns are some of the hardest to convert. You may as well have him cut off his hands and feet, he (we) probably can't be trusted with those either. I can assume he has hands and feet and he hasn't killed anyone today or ever? How is this possible?

You have knives in the house, a chainsaw, ice pic? Make the list as long as you want, in the end it still comes down to the fact that everyone knows the difference between right and wrong and they almost always do the right thing. It always comes back to personal responsibility. The object can't do anything by itself (in spite of what loony liberal types think).

People carry weapons because they don't know everyone and there are people out there that will prey on the fact you can't defend yourself.

He might know where the cliff is, but what if the cliff is the guy that is planning on doing you harm? Do you always know where that cliff is?

If he doesn't like guns, fine don't get any. It is a very simple equation. Just stop trying to restrict or take away my guns.

Ask the woman that was stabbed to death by the guy that cut off his monitoring bracelet in New York if she wanted a weapon to protect herself.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/16/man-accused-killing-woman-raping-child-in-new-york-mall-carjacking/?test=latestnews


Oh wait, you can't she's dead. I bet that woman didn't see that cliff coming. Carrying a weapon as least gives you a chance and that is all I and everyone else should have.

That fact should be as obvious as the nose on his face.
 
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See, what's different with him is that he's not about making some stand on gun bans. He's just pretty vocal about his opinion and his feelings on those that "think" (in his words) that they should be able to carry a gun. This is the same guy that will shoot air rifles and paintball guns too - and have a great time doing it. Those are apparently alright when used responsibly, but actual guns - in his mind - only make people irresponsible.

I asked him how many times he's ever seen me pull out my carry gun, and he answered never. Said he trusts me, just not everybody else. My answer - "Well, I don't necessarily trust everybody else either - that's why I carry. I can trust another person that carries though, because they've been checked out thoroughly and are allowed to fulfill their second amendment right."

Ranger007 said:
Have you taken him shooting Crono?
Click to expand...

As I stated above - I've shot air rifles with him. Done paintball with him and 20 other people. He has shown a vague interest in maybe going to the range, but as of yet, he has not joined me. Once he figures out that a good guy with a gun isn't the problem, I know I'll have him hooked.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2
 
Nick Fury said:
I find myself to be way more rational when I am armed. No posturing is necessary.
Click to expand...

This is what I've been trying to get him to understand. Carrying comes with a hefty responsibility to react rationally. He can't see that because he's never carried. I bet if he had a gun connected to him for one day, he would truly see how different he reacted and thought about everything.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2
 
PennyPincher said:
55 Million gun owners in this country and there is not blood in the streets of every town,city, suburb. Most gun violence is gang/known criminal related.
Click to expand...

You're off by a factor of two. It's more like 100 million gun owners; 1/3 of the population.
 

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