NES, Ukraine style

Yazz

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Im curious as to what side took that shot.

One thing thats been a hallmark of this civil war is mutual indiscriminate indirect fire. Epic bush league bullshit.
Well the Ukrainians didn't kick the U.S. ambassador out of Moscow.
 

Poxbox

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My understanding is that Ukraine has the largest army in that whole region. No idea if they are trained but I wouldn't think of them as easy pickings.
 

Dench

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My understanding is that Ukraine has the largest army in that whole region. No idea if they are trained but I wouldn't think of them as easy pickings.
They're completely unable to retake the separatist held areas after they lost them.

Wouldn't consider that a glowing endorsement
 
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going down swinging is better than cowering under a table.

wondering if he'll join a "well regulated malitia" if the time comes or toss in the towel.
I know a lot of you on NES have wet dreams of the day a foreign enemy military invades us and it's up to you and your buddies in ceramic plate carriers and your tricked out ARs to save the country lol. Obviously fight when you can but be realistic. What is babushka grandma gonna be able to do when the Russian bombs start dropping? When SWAT surrounds your house, do you plan to assert your alpha male dominance and take pot shots at them?
 
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How did the US and Allied forces do in the GWOT against a bunch of goat herders over 20+ years?
Lol. Compare the US servicemen casualties vs the death count for afghan and Iraqi civilians. Couple thousands vs half a million? Sure we didn't get to annex the countries but you can't tell me they didn't lose quite a bit.
 

240Geezer

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Partisans didn't get to surrender. They were summarily lined up and ate the Luger round.
Natives/insurgents/ defenders always hold the advantage. It takes 10:1 ratio to overcome defenders on average. You want to occupy then it takes more.
Every civilian is a possible assassin.
Everything a possible booby trap.
Every bump in the road a possible IED.
Have a nice day Ivan.
 
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Natives/insurgents/ defenders always hold the advantage. It takes 10:1 ratio to overcome defenders on average. You want to occupy then it takes more.
Every civilian is a possible assassin.
Everything a possible booby trap.
Every bump in the road a possible IED.
Have a nice day Ivan.
Names Tyrone. I don't care either way who wins this Ukraine drama. Which side helps the Biden family make a fortune though?
 

Sammy

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What is babushka grandma gonna be able to do when the Russian bombs start dropping? When SWAT surrounds your house, do you plan to assert your alpha male dominance and take pot shots at them?
You think like an American. Russia is a country bent on war. There has not been a period in the history of Russia where it has not been involved in a war. This is the most militaristic country on the planet! Do you think I'm wrong? Here's a list of all wars Russians fought in the 200 years leading up to WW2:

1748 - War with Sweeden
1763 - War with Prussia and England
1769 - War with Ukraine
1772 - War with Poland
1773 - War with Turkey
1775 - War with Turkey
1787 - War with Turkey
1790 - War with Sweden
1792 - War with Poland
1794 - War with Lithuania
1796 - War with Iraq(Persia)
1802 - War with Denmark, Norway
1803 - War with France
1804 - War with Iraq(Persia)
1806 - War with Italy
1806 - War with Turkey
1807 - War with England
1809 - War with Austria
1812 - War with France
1814 - War with France
1817 - War with Dagestan, Abkhaz, Kabarda, Avaria
1826 - War with Persia(Iraq)
1827 - War with Turkey
1830 - War with Poland
1839 - War with Kazakhstan, Afganistan
1841 - War with Egypt
1848 - War with Hungary
1853 - War with Turkey and Britain
1858 - War with Estnonia
1863 - War with Ukraine, Poland and Lithuania
1877 - Was with Turkey
1897 - War with Turkey
1899 - War with China
1904 - War with Japan
1905 - War with Iran
WW1
1916 - War with Kirgizstan and Tukenstan
1917 - War with Ukraine, Romania, and Poland
1920 - War with Kasakhstan
1918 - War with Finland
1920 - War with Latvia
1920 - War with Estnonia
1920 - War with Lithuania
1921 - War with Poland
1923 - War with Armenia and Greece
1920 - War with Azerbaijan
1921 - War with Georgia
1921 - War with Mongolia
1922 - War with Finland
1924 - War with Romania
1926 - War with Afganistan
1929 - War with China
1932 - War with Chechnia
1932 - War with Japan
1936 - War with Spain
1937 - War with China
1939 - War with Finland
1939 - War with Romania

In case you lost count, that's 58 wars in 200 years! Most of these wars were over a year-long, with some lasting for 60+ years!
 

cams

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I know a lot of you on NES have wet dreams of the day a foreign enemy military invades us and it's up to you and your buddies in ceramic plate carriers and your tricked out ARs to save the country lol. Obviously fight when you can but be realistic. What is babushka grandma gonna be able to do when the Russian bombs start dropping? When SWAT surrounds your house, do you plan to assert your alpha male dominance and take pot shots at them?
What are their choices right now? Arm anybody that can hold a rifle or tell those people to just sit back, make some coffee and hope the others can fight them off for you. “Yaa sorry I’m old, can we take a pass and just wait for a knock on the door to see if we’re captured or free?”

You use the snarky ‘alpha male’ comments often around here lately to mock people who are simply willing and able to stand up and fight for their own freedoms, even if they have no military training, are older than a MAM, out of shape or otherwise.

I’m curious what you would have us do, how you reached that conclusion and what qualifications you have to arrive there.
 

Mesatchornug

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What are their choices right now? Arm anybody that can hold a rifle or tell those people to just sit back, make some coffee and hope the others can fight them off for you. “Yaa sorry I’m old, can we take a pass and just wait for a knock on the door to see if we’re captured or free?”

You use the snarky ‘alpha male’ comments often around here lately to mock people who are simply willing and able to stand up and fight for their own freedoms, even if they have no military training, are older than a MAM, out of shape or otherwise.

I’m curious what you would have us do, how you reached that conclusion and what qualifications you have to arrive there.
once one decides that they can't be Sam Whittemore, it's critical to the ego to declare that nobody else can either.
 

mu2bdriver

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Lol. Compare the US servicemen casualties vs the death count for afghan and Iraqi civilians. Couple thousands vs half a million? Sure we didn't get to annex the countries but you can't tell me they didn't lose quite a bit.
Forget death counts. Wars are about winning. With our technology and training, counts should easily be 1000 to 1 or higher. And they value life so little over there that it's not even a reasonable metric. Sure, they lost something over there, but did we win anything or did the goat frackers over there on generational lands play the long game and come out ahead?
 
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What are their choices right now? Arm anybody that can hold a rifle or tell those people to just sit back, make some coffee and hope the others can fight them off for you. “Yaa sorry I’m old, can we take a pass and just wait for a knock on the door to see if we’re captured or free?”

You use the snarky ‘alpha male’ comments often around here lately to mock people who are simply willing and able to stand up and fight for their own freedoms, even if they have no military training, are older than a MAM, out of shape or otherwise.

I’m curious what you would have us do, how you reached that conclusion and what qualifications you have to arrive there.
I've been called a cuck plenty of times on here for not wanting to die a stupid worthless death that can be avoided. And also a cuck for not going green lol. Clearly I am not an alpha male. Not being snarky in any means. I applaud those of you willing to be tough with your words and with a patriotic fervor to fight a tyrant. Plane ticket isnt too expensive and Ukraine will even give you an AK once you land.
 

drgrant

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I'm loving the mental gymnastics in here to make it seem ok for one sovereign nation to invade another sovereign nation.

I do think @Dench has a point WRT the "soft territories" he already mentioned earlier in this thread. I don't see ukranian civilians or even the military there doing much to stop russia from taking those territories he mentioned. Russia practically dipped its toe in with a fake military the last time and took a lot of control, almost like it was a test. Theres quite obviously a difference between the political boundaries of Ukraine and the cultural ones.
 

In God We Trust

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Natives/insurgents/ defenders always hold the advantage. It takes 10:1 ratio to overcome defenders on average. You want to occupy then it takes more.
Every civilian is a possible assassin.
Everything a possible booby trap.
Every bump in the road a possible IED.
Have a nice day Ivan.
I was taught that an attack force needs a 3:1 advantage against a dug in defender. This assumes an equality of training, weapons and support. Not sure what the actual numbers are over there. Not my problem either way.
 
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drgrant

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Lol. Compare the US servicemen casualties vs the death count for afghan and Iraqi civilians. Couple thousands vs half a million? Sure we didn't get to annex the countries but you can't tell me they didn't lose quite a bit.

Dude they're dirt farmer countries where life is worth about 25 cents. If you don't take territory or resources (real shit you can turn into money) you didn't win much of anything. Who do you think is going to suffer proportionally worse from the conflict in a long game? Putting us trillions in debt for that ain't going to help.

About the only win is sure you smoked a generation or so of terrorists, but there are a couple of problems with that....

A- we obviously didnt get all of them
B- these people f*** like rabbits more than likely and inside of 20 years there will be another crop of them to deal with.

If the US keeps spending a trillion dollars every 20 years to smoke durkas, the US is going to end up like one of their countries.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how that works.
 

cams

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I've been called a cuck plenty of times on here for not wanting to die a stupid worthless death that can be avoided. And also a cuck for not going green lol. Clearly I am not an alpha male. Not being snarky in any means. I applaud those of you willing to be tough with your words and with a patriotic fervor to fight a tyrant. Plane ticket isnt too expensive and Ukraine will even give you an AK once you land.
A couple things come to mind and I’m being polite here as this is a serious thread and don’t want to blow it up with mudslinging. I don’t care about the green thing, not my business or my website and I’ll accept at face value that your snarkiness isn’t done purposely.

That said, what do you consider as dying a stupid worthless death? I’m left only to assume that you mean trying to fight for your freedom or just rolling over and accepting a short life of misery for you and your family because it’s not worth the trouble, Is that accurate?

And why, if you don’t consider yourself an alpha, would you walk into a circle of alleged alphas just to denigrate them? Isn’t that really in line with standing up for what you believe in? Which is what you’re saying you don’t believe in? This is where the confusion lies. Your words and actions don’t jive.
 

Dench

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I do think @Dench has a point WRT the "soft territories" he already mentioned earlier in this thread. I don't see ukranian civilians or even the military there doing much to stop russia from taking those territories he mentioned. Russia practically dipped its toe in with a fake military the last time and took a lot of control, almost like it was a test. Theres quite obviously a difference between the political boundaries of Ukraine and the cultural ones.
ideally they could/would hold a vote that wouldnt be a complete joke. I believe early on the East was attempting to do this, and it probably was a joke. Regardless, if by some magic a real vote that was monitored by the powers could take place it could save a lot of bloodshed.

I respect peoples collective choice to leave a country more than the lines that country has decided to keep, etc.

If MA wanted to leave I'd say good luck take care. I wouldnt be calling for the US to hold it by force. What the f*** do I care?
 
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A couple things come to mind and I’m being polite here as this is a serious thread and don’t want to blow it up with mudslinging. I don’t care about the green thing, not my business or my website and I’ll accept at face value that your snarkiness isn’t done purposely.

That said, what do you consider as dying a stupid worthless death? I’m left only to assume that you mean trying to fight for your freedom or just rolling over and accepting a short life of misery for you and your family because it’s not worth the trouble, Is that accurate?

And why, if you don’t consider yourself an alpha, would you walk into a circle of alleged alphas just to denigrate them? Isn’t that really in line with standing up for what you believe in? Which is what you’re saying you don’t believe in? This is where the confusion lies. Your words and actions don’t jive.
Whoa the philosophical stuff is too much for me on my lunch break lol. I never meant to troll this forum and didn't think my posts were such. I'm not pro Russia or pro CCP or pro West or whatever I could not give less of a shit about geo politics. I do think a couple of cubicle office workers and a doctor, some grandmas and teen kids with AKs don't stand a realistic chance of doing any "resisting". Sure y'all might say but it's the thought that counts. Ukraine had what, 8 years getting their shit together and they didn't? Last time Putin played "just the tip" with his little green men, they didn't have much trouble. What's changed?

I would die to protect my kids and my family. No hesitation. If I was a Ukrainian civilian when the Russian army rolls thru I'd hedge my bets they're not gonna summarily execute me and my entire town. Russians don't see the Ukrainians like the way the Nazis saw Jews or how Japanese saw Chinese civilians. Don't think there will be any Nanjing style baby throwing and bayonet catching contests this time.
 

cams

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I never meant to troll this forum and didn't think my posts were such.
Understood.
I do think a couple of cubicle office workers and a doctor, some grandmas and teen kids with AKs don't stand a realistic chance of doing any "resisting".
Have you forgotten how we came to be free? Wasn’t much more than a few farmers who said hey FU King, it’s my farm, my families food and my musket. You’re not taking it. And they proceeded to kick the ass of the greatest empire the world had ever known. Thousands of years of bloody rule and war, and got tossed out the front door by farmers, peasants and every day ‘Americans’ who just said no more and stood up.
I would die to protect my kids and my family. No hesitation. If I was a Ukrainian civilian when the Russian army rolls thru I'd hedge my bets they're not gonna summarily execute me and my entire town. Russians don't see the Ukrainians like the way the Nazis saw Jews or how Japanese saw Chinese civilians. Don't think there will be any Nanjing style baby throwing and bayonet catching contests this time.
They want to be free people. It’s that simple. Free people don’t live on their knees for any man or any country. Do you not remember how the Russian troops treated the German civilians in those cities and towns that were overrun at the end of the war? There was no need to kill one more person (except for captured Nazis), they had secured everything they needed to end the battle, and they proceeded to brutally rape, murder and torture thousands of German civilians, and those were the ones that didn’t fight back or thought they’d be safe as non-combatants with the war ending.

Never underestimate mans depravity to man, It will, quite literally, be the death of you.
 

Artifact

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tldw: watch Ukrainian IT guys who do 3 gun think they are going to resist Russian infantry. [rofl]

Adorable. I liked the part where they would work with Ukrainian SF (whatever that is).

Bonus points for having a "doctor" there, because him running and gunning is somehow more useful than treating the wounded. [rofl]



Theres a lot of grey area. When Russia invaded Crimea what happened? The locals liked it. When Russia invaded Eastern Ukraine in 2014, what happened? They obliterated the Ukrainian military and militia in the area and left. And no one batted an eye.

If Russia was to reinvade the 2 eastern areas, the same thing is going to happen. The locals will like it (as they have in the past) and the Ukrainian military will get its ass handed to them as far as Russia wants west, which looking at the past years data isn't all that far in.

If I was a Ukrainian and I had a choice to go fight for land in the East where the locals didnt even want me, well, the choice is pretty easy.

Ukraine has had almost 8 years to get its act together regarding the Russian interest in the east. And zero has been done about it in reality. Ukraine can't even police it's own territory nevermind stop an overwhelming force from doing what it wants to. Theres a lot of reasons for it. From incompetence to corruption to lack of consensus.

This is a lot more of an old Soviet border issue compared to whatever the f*** CNN and Biden pretend it are. A lot of the old Soviet borders are hot spots right now, and approximately zero people seem to care about the other ones. The reason is simple. $.
People throwing around Soviet Union’s Afghanistan failure are cute. I guess we will find out. Adidas Russia it’s not your grandpas Soviet Union.
 

Dench

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People throwing around Soviet Union’s Afghanistan failure are cute. I guess we will find out. Adidas Russia it’s not your grandpas Soviet Union.
I know a pretty reasonable amount of Soviet Afghanistan extravaganza. I'm running real short on similarities though.

They want to be free people. It’s that simple. Free people don’t live on their knees for any man or any country

I hate to be devils advocate, and woe is me, but shit, are WE free? Not entirely sure about that one. Depends on a lot of context. which is sorta f***ed up.
 

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Throw in a house to house round up of guns with instant death for those who fail to comply or are caught with firepower after a surrender order and it does not look favorable for suburbanite IT workers and MDs.
EgW3HKOXYAYPExd

  1. Should GOAL send some observers to figure out the best way to ambush gun-grabbers?
  2. Sounds like if the Ukraine has a private gun registry, now is the time to delete the database and all backups. No time to debate it - the Russians may already have a copy.
  3. 20 years ago upon pondering the risk of suitcase Ryder rental truck nukes in US First-World Sh¡thole Cities, my conclusion was that "nuking US cities kills liberals, and converts survivors into conservatives". If you think the Rooskies regretted invading Calumet, CO; imagine a companion movie about what transpired in the Blue States. Not saying there'd be a happy ending...
 

Dench

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I get the impression that the Ukrainian military is playing 4d chess. why get ground up when there's a long list of civilians who seem to be interested in getting ground up instead? The Ukrainian army hasn't done shit since 2014 and I can't imagine them starting to create miracle anytime soon. They will just keep kicking the can down the road.

I spent some time with the Ukrainian Army in the Balkans. Nice guys. the mojo and power projection was... well... what you'd think. And the leadership wasn't exactly hot stuff either. I felt for the enlisted. I still do.
 

Artifact

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I was taught that an attack force needs a 3:1 advantage against a dug in defender. This assumes an equality of training, weapons and support. Not sure what the actual numbers are over there. Not my problem either way.
You see that doesn’t apply to Russia vs Ukraine. 3:1 is as old as a 1911 handgun. Technology and tactical superiority has dramatically widen that ratio. We can even take it a step further and throw in global and political sway power. Ukrainians have nothing, zero anything to leverage. They bring absolutely nothing to the table on the global scale besides bags of money for Brandon.

Fack apple and its autocorrct shit
 
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Ukraine just made the mistake of having a landlocked border with Russia. Also giving up their nukes and codes. Should have learned from Taiwan.
 
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You see that doesn’t apply to Russia vs Ukraine. 3:1 is as old as a 1911 handgun. Technology and tactical superiority has dramatically widen that ratio. We can even take it a step further and throw in global and political sway power. Ukrainians have nothing, zero anything to leverage. They bring absolutely nothing to the table on the global scale besides bags of money for Brandon.

Fack apple and its autocorrct shit
You just need to train Apple so eventually it auto corrects Biden to Brandon.
 

Dench

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You see that doesn’t apply to Russia vs Ukraine. 3:1 is as old as a 1911 handgun. Technology and tactical superiority has dramatically widen that ratio. We can even take it a step further and throw in global and political sway power. Ukrainians have nothing, zero anything to leverage. They bring absolutely nothing to the table on the global scale besides bags of money for Brandon.

Fack apple and its autocorrct shit
Ukraine is certainly in a rough spot in terms of what it brings to the table. Which is probably why this thing is as hot as it is. The East over there is coal territory from what I understand and it's not hard to see why Ukraine doesnt want it to go. The only problem is everyone living there doesnt wany anything to do with Ukraine.

Ukraine could turn into the next Moldova if it loses more and thats a rough ride to be on.
 
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Rob, the only people saying that Russia is interested in Ukraine (as in all of it) is Biden. The 3 areas that Russia is eye balling are de facto Russian. And those Russians living in Ukraine want the f*** out. They've been saying it for a long, long time. Crimea already did it. And I remember very well when Russia took it over how the media attempted to spin it into something that it was very much not.

Donetsk and Luhansk are what's on the table for sure. This is the area that Ukraine as had zero control over since the war started. I've seen the "plans" for Russian invasion into Ukraine that have the invasion going all the way into Kiev and to the Dnipro. Shit, they even make a f***ing stop in Transnistria (which is entertaining because Russia already has troops there but whatever at this point).

If the "plan" goes out as planned, yes, I suspect the Ukrainians in those West of Donetsk area will have one hell of a reason to fight. I just think it's a tough sell. It would be a simple thing to take Donetsk and Luhansk and they'd be welcomed as heros for it. Taking over 50% of the country? Eh... if it was easy I can't see why they would do it. But having all the locals hate you is going to make it hard by default so it's a hard sell.

I get a lot of self mastabotory vibes from the posts regarding this. And for the NESers with erections for Ukraine I bring you good news. You can literally get on a plane now, fly there, join a western militia based out of the area, be furnished with a weapon and waste as much time as you want. A lot of people have done it. Not my cup of tea, but shit, if it's that important no ones stopping anyone.

Regardless, Ukraine still fails to do shit about it. Is Ukraine worried about invasion? Shit... maybe start a f***ing huge draft for man power and readiness? You know, assemble the men to get ready to law down some violence on people?

Oh, we're just going to have white collar people form into unorganized militias if the time comes. [rofl]

I don't know if Russia will or will not invade. I do know that Ukraine's actions clearly show that they either don't think it will or don't care.
If Little Puty invades there will be many body bags going back to Mother Russia. He wants Ukraine back in his sphere of influence because they are moving towards the West and that makes him look bad and he's a very weak leader. He knows if his Russian Oligarchs smell weakness he's done, his hold on power depends on his allowing these clowns to pillage their country and store their "assets" in London. Little Puty is a murderous, corrupt little dictator who lives in the past and the only reason he is still in power is oil/gas and the Euroweenies underfunding their Armies and Germany's idiotic decision to close their Nuke plants and allow the Green party to dictate their policy. Germany depends on Russian gas and cut a deal with the devil which will bite them in the ass eventually. Trump told them to pay their fair share and the Euroweenies hated him for it. The West needs to target their oil/gas industry, cut him off from the Western financial system and publish all the murders and corruption in his regime. Holman Jenkins Jr. has a great article in the WSJ yesterday about how to deal with him but we know the Euroweenies won't stand up to him.
 
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