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New IDPA Rulebook - Draft

I did a quick read during lunch and will read it in more detail at home, but it looks like they got rid of the round dumping-FTDR rule?

If so, that's good. That was one of my biggest gripes about IDPA rules
 
Round dumping seems to be gone. If you run dry in the open you can start a reload on the way to cover. Range commands are now very close to that other sport.
 
M1911 said:
Round dumping seems to be gone. If you run dry in the open you can start a reload on the way to cover. Range commands are now very close to that other sport.
Click to expand...

Except for 'eyes and ears, range is going hot' (WTF) and 'pull the trigger'.

I'd like to say I'm surprised that all they have to show for 18 months of work is some minor clarifications, removing the round dumping rule, and copying popper calibration and arbitration procedures from the other game. Unfortunately, I'm not in the least bit surprised. The huge elephant in the room that is the subjectivity of cover calls got completely punted.

I'm amused that they added to popper calibration that requesting a calibration subjects you to immediate chrono. I'm sure everyone can think of a local shooter to name this rule after.
 
jar said:
Except for 'eyes and ears, range is going hot' (WTF) and 'pull the trigger'.
Click to expand...

I think "pull the trigger" is a good change. Striker-fired guns don't have hammers and new shooters with double-action guns will sometimes decock in response.

Bill I just don't see a need for overlays. We aren't playing for money and it would be just one more thing to slow down the match (and one more piece of equipment). Let the SO call it and move on.
 
I am also very disappointed that there is still no "IDPA Open" category to reflect the realities of modern carry/defensive/duty pistols.

-AIWB carry
-lasers
-WMLs
-RMRs
 
Flashlights don't need to be concealed, but knee pads do?

.45 GAP isn't gaming in ESR but 38 LC or 38 SC is in SSR?

finger! (warning)
finger! (procedural)
finger! (FTDR)
finger! (DQ)
Do you really need 3 chances before you get DQ'd?

Muzzle! (warning, near but not past)
Muzzle! (FTDR, near but not past)
Muzzle! (DQ, near but not past)
You didn't go past the muzzle safe point or the 180 and you get DQ'd? WTF?
 
eisenhow said:
finger! (warning)
finger! (procedural)
finger! (FTDR)
finger! (DQ)
Do you really need 3 chances before you get DQ'd?

Muzzle! (warning, near but not past)
Muzzle! (FTDR, near but not past)
Muzzle! (DQ, near but not past)
You didn't go past the muzzle safe point or the 180 and you get DQ'd? WTF?
Click to expand...

Ya..... WTF
 
eisenhow said:
Flashlights don't need to be concealed, but knee pads do?
finger! (warning)
finger! (procedural)
finger! (FTDR)
finger! (DQ)
Do you really need 3 chances before you get DQ'd?

Muzzle! (warning, near but not past)
Muzzle! (FTDR, near but not past)
Muzzle! (DQ, near but not past)
You didn't go past the muzzle safe point or the 180 and you get DQ'd? WTF?
Click to expand...

I checked in on the comments for the new rules and there seem to be about 10 people pointing out the exact same thing and adding that making it official policy to let the SO physically stop the shooter from running into a barrel is simply not appropriate and will add to the judgement calls dilemma (If the SO interferes, you get a reshoot, unless you were close to a harmless barrel or Bianchi barrier).

The other big thing is the new reload rules. Right now, I've had several SO's call me for reloading between points of cover while maintaining cover, and other raise a finger. The new rules certainly make it clearer, but mostly removing moving reloads increases my sadness.

A few other things:
  • They need to hire an editor and not publish drafts until it's gone through one.
  • The internal title of the document is "Microsoft Word".
  • Are DA/SA with hammers allowed in SSP? I mean, yes they are since they referenced Sigs later in the document in SSP, but should probably be pointed out
  • There seems to be a strong contingent of people pulling for .40 in CDP as long as it makes major, as people in that other game would say. I see no competitive advantage of a smaller bullet going faster, but I'm a noob and probably missing something.
  • Cool, we can air-gun as long as we're 10 yards back from the stage!
  • Still too much wiggle room in the rules: "...typically leave a grease ring...", but what if it doesn't or it's a shoot-through and all the grease is used up? "Radial tears...": hard to tell without getting real close and then subject to interpretation as to whether the tear was caused by weakness in the target or by the bullet.


Anyway, It's a big improvement from a clarity standpoint from the old rules, but I really hope they take a few more weeks and sort it all out.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and many props to NBPD3682's dowel rule making it into the books!
 
kilroth said:
The other big thing is the new reload rules. Right now, I've had several SO's call me for reloading between points of cover while maintaining cover, and other raise a finger. The new rules certainly make it clearer, but mostly removing moving reloads increases my sadness.
Click to expand...

Huh? Where does it remove moving reloads?
 
kilroth said:
I checked in on the comments for the new rules and there seem to be about 10 people pointing out the exact same thing and adding that making it official policy to let the SO physically stop the shooter from running into a barrel is simply not appropriate and will add to the judgement calls dilemma (If the SO interferes, you get a reshoot, unless you were close to a harmless barrel or Bianchi barrier).

The other big thing is the new reload rules. Right now, I've had several SO's call me for reloading between points of cover while maintaining cover, and other raise a finger. The new rules certainly make it clearer, but mostly removing moving reloads increases my sadness.

A few other things:
  • They need to hire an editor and not publish drafts until it's gone through one.
  • The internal title of the document is "Microsoft Word".
  • Are DA/SA with hammers allowed in SSP? I mean, yes they are since they referenced Sigs later in the document in SSP, but should probably be pointed out
  • There seems to be a strong contingent of people pulling for .40 in CDP as long as it makes major, as people in that other game would say. I see no competitive advantage of a smaller bullet going faster, but I'm a noob and probably missing something.
  • Cool, we can air-gun as long as we're 10 yards back from the stage!
  • Still too much wiggle room in the rules: "...typically leave a grease ring...", but what if it doesn't or it's a shoot-through and all the grease is used up? "Radial tears...": hard to tell without getting real close and then subject to interpretation as to whether the tear was caused by weakness in the target or by the bullet.


Anyway, It's a big improvement from a clarity standpoint from the old rules, but I really hope they take a few more weeks and sort it all out.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and many props to NBPD3682's dowel rule making it into the books!
Click to expand...

A few more weeks? What you see here took 18-ish months....
I'd say with edits we are on schedule for a Q3 - 2014 launch...ha.
 
M1911 said:
Huh? Where does it remove moving reloads?
Click to expand...

The boundary marking the \u201cposition of cover\u201d is the line of cover defined by the last target to be engaged from that position.
R9.1. If the shooter runs the firearm empty behind cover, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded.
R9.2. When performing a Loaded Cylinder/Loaded Chamber reload, the shooter may not advance in the stage (move toward the next shooting position) until the weapon is deemed loaded.
Click to expand...

I think people are interpreting "may not advance in the stage (move toward the next shooting position)" as moving behind cover. It's not clear to me exactly what they intended.
 
There is some real suckage in S8:

If the muzzle of the shooter’s firearm points near to a muzzle safe point but not past, the “Muzzle” command will be given. The first occurrence in a match will be a warning. The second occurrence in a single match will result in a Failure To Do Right (FTDR) penalty. The third occurrence in a single match will result in a Disqualification.
Click to expand...

So, they didn't break the muzzle safe point, but they get penalized anyways? Is it the muzzle safe point or not? If it is the muzzle safe point, then "near" it is still safe, so why the bunched panties? And if it isn't the actual muzzle safe point, if "near" is the actual muzzle safe point, why isn't the muzzle safe point actually at the "near" location? How the heck is a shooter supposed to know what the SO thinks is "near"? How are two different SOs going to call "near" the same way?

WTF?
 
M1911 said:
There is some real suckage in S8:



So, they didn't break the muzzle safe point, but they get penalized anyways? Is it the muzzle safe point or not? If it is the muzzle safe point, then "near" it is still safe, so why the bunched panties? And if it isn't the actual muzzle safe point, if "near" is the actual muzzle safe point, why isn't the muzzle safe point actually at the "near" location? How the heck is a shooter supposed to know what the SO thinks is "near"? How are two different SOs going to call "near" the same way?

WTF?
Click to expand...

At least this is just stupid rules bullshit in the name of "safety" rather than downright unsafe rules:
S14: The SO will physically stop a shooter when possible, most likely by grabbing his/her arm, if the shooter is
about to do something unsafe. If the shooter would have received a Disqualification for the action, even though
the action was stopped the shooter will still receive a Disqualification.
When a shooter is about to run into a barricade, potentially trip or fall, or do something unsafe, the SO will
physically intervene when possible, to prevent a potential accident. Because the SO kept the shooter from
having a safety issue due to a shooter’s error, there is no reshoot.


Grabbing a hold of someone who's about to commit a safety violation sounds like a great idea. Adding another body in to the mix of a trip and fall sounds even safer! If the SO thinks I *might* trip and fall, he can interfere with me and I have no recourse. If this stupidity makes it in to the final rules, I'm done with IDPA for good.
 
I will post here what I posted somewhere else, My best wishes to those shooting IDPA. I joined in 1999 and left in 2013. I have 2 used but very good 5.11 vests I would like to get rid of as I will never use them again.

Any NEW shooters needing a cover garment, please send me a PM. Don't take one as a spare, take it because you need it. I believe one is XL other is XXL.

Good luck with the sport.

(BTW, looks like they will need chrono at majors now. My boxes are almost complete and I can be available)
 
They completely ignored the biggest issue many have with IDPA. The subjectivity that SO's are required to make with regard to cover. Their excuse is that quality SO's can make good cover calls. But what about the numerous non-quality SO's?

At least they realized that yelling "cover" at the shooter after you have already decided to give them a procedural is penalizing the shooter twice. Unless it is a dangerous situation, yelling in someone's ear when they are holding a gun is a stupid idea.
 
I'm only about half-way through it, but here are my notes so far (many of which have been covered here already):

1. Range commands are slightly different, including “pull the trigger” instead of hammer down.

2. 03-R2. This rule makes it sound like the on-deck shooter cannot walk the stage, check cover positions, etc. as the previous shooters targets are being taped.

3. 03-R3.1. This sounds like airgunning is allowed if you are back far enough away from the stage boundary. Stage boundaries are a new concept (see SD4).

4. R9 clarifies the rule about whether, after engaging targets, you can move to a new position of cover while reloading, even if the movement between the old position and the new position does not expose you to any new threats. The old threat remains the line of demarcation for the position of cover. My sense was that this was generally understood under the old rules, but seems more clear here.

5. R20. Standard start with a flashlight is in support hand. Stage description may not force a shooter to start with the flashlight stowed on his or her body.

6. R20.3. Flashlight must be retained by the shooter throughout the COF (i.e., no putting the flashlight on the ground to illuminate targets – we had many shooters do this at a recent MWT match).

7. SC17.5. Can someone explain this to me? For Stationary IDPA Reactive Targets, you put a paper target in front of the steel, but don't score the paper?
 
BigDaddyAl said:
7. SC17.5. Can someone explain this to me? For Stationary IDPA Reactive Targets, you put a paper target in front of the steel, but don't score the paper?
Click to expand...

They're talking about targets where hitting the steel makes the paper target in front fall down.
 
DR said:
They're talking about targets where hitting the steel makes the paper target in front fall down.
Click to expand...

I don't think I've seen a paper target like this that is used solely for aiming, and were you don't score the paper. I think I've seen paper targets in front of steel where the paper falls forward, but I'm fairly confident those targets were scored.
 

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