New Marine Corps rifle qual.

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USAF qual, at basic training was nothing. Shot a 22lr modified M16. (This was way before the AR15-22 was a standard production rifle). Had to hit a silhouette target Something like 80 or 100 at 100 yards to get marksmen. But "passing" wasn't required to pass basic.
Didn't touch a weapon again until a couple years later. A 5.56 M16 this time. Guy next to me shot at my target too. Got my marksmanship medal, but never pinned it. I didn't wear blues after shipping to Germany.
 

PappyM3

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Good to see.

If they did this back in the 80s, maybe the M16A2 would have actually been focused on combat instead of high power competitions.
 
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I think they should train for 'real world' scenarios. Just makes me wonder what enemy they have in mind for this new technique.

Tin foil time I know, but can't help but wonder and to know if their focus is on American civilians.

The timing is suspicious to me with what happened with congress a few weeks back and Biden being the potus and all...
 

teamRR

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I think they should train for 'real world' scenarios. Just makes me wonder what enemy they have in mind for this new technique.

Tin foil time I know, but can't help but wonder and to know if their focus is on American civilians.

The timing is suspicious to me with what happened with congress a few weeks back and Biden being the potus and all...

For now put the tin foil back under the kitchen counter. At a minimum the "problem" recently was not shooting proficiency and it sounds like the marines have been at it since Trump.
 
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For now put the tin foil back under the kitchen counter. At a minimum the "problem" recently was not shooting proficiency and it sounds like the marines have been at it since Trump.
Maybe so. Most prior military trained the old way. And since the Marines have done pretty well in foreign conflicts to this point it just makes me wonder why now for the change in training tactics.
 

Reptile

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What happens to the Marines who never qualify even under remedial help?

Are they kicked out?

I think there will be some recruits who may have every other skill to be a good Marine but just can't qualify.

Perhaps they can transfer to another branch.
 

KMM696

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Maybe so. Most prior military trained the old way. And since the Marines have done pretty well in foreign conflicts to this point it just makes me wonder why now for the change in training tactics.
It's not a change in initial training, it's a change in qualification.

From the article:
Unless you’re a new officer candidate or recruit, in that case the traditional initial marksmanship training and two weeks of snapping in drills, shooting slick and in the century-old standing, kneeling, sitting and prone positions will still apply.

Qualifying in a manner that more closely resembles use in the field, and only doing qualification tasks during that time makes sense. If a Marine quals right out of the box, they haven't had to waste time repeating training during the 2 week qualifications that they didn't need. If they fail qual, then off to remedial training with them.
 

MJ1

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Shit M14 to 500 yards.

iFENYvP.jpg
 

PappyM3

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Huh? What's that about?
The USMC was in charge of the M16A2 program and its requirements. A few of their changes were aimed at improving the rifle for a one-way 500 yard qualification range rather than actual combat.

They ditched the very simple and effective A1 sights in favor of adding a sight with elevation adjustment out to 800 meters that was better suited for paper targets than combat. It was no longer meant to be zeroed for a combat zero out to 250 meters. The small aperture is too small and the big one too big

They extended the length of pull to increase shooter scores in the prone(particularly for their 500 yard qualification) at the expense of all other shooting positions. Particularly at the expense of squared-off fighting stance style shooting positions that are used for a considerable amount of modern combat shooting. Nevermind how much it screwed over every person who is/was shorter than average. Hell, even average height people are disadvantaged with the A2 length vs the A1 length.

Then there were the issues of adding a god forsaken bump to the pistol grip for who knows what reason. They switched it to a three round burst that made every third semi auto shot have a slightly different trigger pull weight and feel. Oh, and adding weight to the end of the barrel instead of towards the chamber. You can thank them for the notorious “government” barrel profile.

About the only good things to come out of the A2 were the brass deflector, 1-7 twist, handguard, and flash hider.
 
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Andy in NH

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They switched it to a three round burst that made every third semi auto shot have a slightly different trigger pull weight and feel.
On the requal range I'd cycle the cam to set up the light trigger pull for every shot (not the rapid fire strings of course).
The coaches didn't care, but the block NCOs were not fond of the idea.
 

Mountain

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The USMC was in charge of the M16A2 program and its requirements. A few of their changes were aimed at improving the rifle for a one-way 500 yard qualification range rather than actual combat.

They ditched the very simple and effective A1 sights in favor of adding a sight with elevation adjustment out to 800 meters that was better suited for paper targets than combat. It was no longer meant to be zeroed for a combat zero out to 250 meters. The small aperture is too small and the big one too big

They extended the length of pull to increase shooter scores in the prone(particularly for their 500 yard qualification) at the expense of all other shooting positions. Particularly at the expense of squared-off fighting stance style shooting positions that are used for a considerable amount of modern combat shooting. Nevermind how much it screwed over every person who is/was shorter than average. Hell, even average height people are disadvantaged with the A2 length vs the A1 length.

Then there were the issues of adding a god forsaken bump to the pistol grip for who knows what reason. They switched it to a three round burst that made every third semi auto shot have a slightly different trigger pull weight and feel. Oh, and adding weight to the end of the barrel instead of towards the chamber. You can thank them for the notorious “government” barrel profile.

About the only good things to come out of the A2 were the brass deflector, 1-7 twist, handguard, and flash hider.
Thanks, interesting!
 
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