New member...I have a question about gun action

[ridgeman06]

Hello to the group. I am currently awaiting approval for my class a mass. permit. I have been using this time doing some learning and research.
I am interested in the Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm or maybe the .40. I am also interested in the Berettta 92FS. I understand that they have different actions with the M&P being double action only, and the 92FS being double/single action with the exposed trigger.
My question is why would you choose one action versus the other? What are the advantages of each style? I do not know as of yet what design I would prefer, or why I would choose one over the other.
My reasons for wanting one are for personal protection; occassional range use, and to take something with me when I go hiking.
Thanks for any responses, Eric

 

[TheRoland]

The M&P is, in fact, striker-fired, and really isn't accurately described as double action. In MA, they ship with a really heavy trigger (about the same as the Beretta DA trigger). Bringing the pistol to a gunsmith (or doing DIY trigger work, or adding non-MA replacement parts_ is pretty much required. A "normal" M&P has a much lighter trigger pull, closer to the Beretta's SA trigger.

Some people, often those with less experience, prefer to carry a gun with an exposed hammer, and DA/SA action, as it is more difficult to fire the first shot. The advantage is mostly piece of mind. My first gun was DA/SA partially for this reason.

The advantage of striker-fired is a better trigger pull on a "normal" or "fixed" M&P. Furthermore, the trigger pull is the same every time; for harder shots with DA/SA, the long first shot and short second shot can be confusing. Basically, on DA/SA you have to learn two triggers instead of only one. Striker-fired also has less controls to worry about.

I'd say most casual shooters are well-served by DA/SA. But if you're willing to get the M&P trigger fixed (or DIY), buy a quality holster, and take care to follow the 4-rules, striker-fired is probably the superior action.

 

[SheepDog_B]

The M&P is, in fact, striker-fired, and really isn't accurately described as double action. In MA, they ship with a really heavy trigger (about the same as the Beretta DA trigger). Bringing the pistol to a gunsmith (or doing DIY trigger work, or adding non-MA replacement parts_ is pretty much required. A "normal" M&P has a much lighter trigger pull, closer to the Beretta's SA trigger.

Some people, often those with less experience, prefer to carry a gun with an exposed hammer, and DA/SA action, as it is more difficult to fire the first shot. The advantage is mostly piece of mind. My first gun was DA/SA partially for this reason.

The advantage of striker-fired is a better trigger pull on a "normal" or "fixed" M&P. Furthermore, the trigger pull is the same every time; for harder shots with DA/SA, the long first shot and short second shot can be confusing. Basically, on DA/SA you have to learn two triggers instead of only one. Striker-fired also has less controls to worry about.

I'd say most casual shooters are well-served by DA/SA. But if you're willing to get the M&P trigger fixed (or DIY), buy a quality holster, and take care to follow the 4-rules, striker-fired is probably the superior action.

this

 

[piman]

You should also consider a single action with a safety, eg a 1911. The trigger is the smooth SA as found in the Beretta 92FS or a SIG. You carry it cocked and safety on.

Modern firearms are unlikely to go off by themselves, so if you are confident of your trigger discipline and willing to invest in a good holster, the choice of action is just a matter of personal preference.

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[mac1911]

try try before you buy.....head off to Manchester fire line....also see if their are any NRA instructors local to you and take a specific style course. Im sure they can help you out. I love my S&W 4013 DA/SA a bit to get used to but its not impossible. I also like the ambidextrous decocker. 4013 i would not say is a heavy first pull but longer much longer.

 

[Dirtypacman]

try try before you buy.....head off to Manchester fire line....also see if their are any NRA instructors local to you and take a specific style course.

+1 on this - the more you can try for yourself the better decision you can make.
Its almost like buying a new car - if you did not test drive it you don't fully grasp how it will feel to you when its on the road.

 

[The Goose]

Try before you buy is excellent advice. That being said I will throw in my .02. I own a lot of different handguns, however, almost all of them are neither for personal defense nor to carry. I think that a DA/SA semi auto pistol is a poor choice for a carry gun unless you are seriously going to train with that format. The long or heavy initial trigger pull has already been mentioned, but personally I find the function of de-cocking to be a bigger issue. In the past I have carried a Sig 229 and a Beretta 92FS and I found the de-cocker awkward on both pistols. Both were great shooters and felt good in the hand, but de-cocking after every string of shots is a pain. When I am at the range I rarely have seen people who shoot DA/SA pistols either shoot the long DA trigger pull first or de-cock after shooting. Most guys I see, at the range, start off by racking the slide then shoot the pistol until the magazine is empty and then drop the mag (or not) and place it on the bench with the action open. Lets face it when we are punching paper we all want to see nice groups and it is easier in the single action mode so most people shoot that way. When I took my first real handgun class with a DA/SA I realized that every string of shots, whether a single, double or more, proceeded from the DA mode because I had to de-cock as I returned to ready or to re-holster. With a striker fired pistol one simply takes their finger off of the trigger and then returns it when on target and the pull is always consistent. This is fast easy and uncomplicated. Of course it is advantageous to handle all types of handguns and know how they function, but if I am going to stake my life on on a gun that I carry I want to be completely comfortable with it's function and it's manual of arms. Returning a cocked DA/SA pistol to the holster in a stressful situation would not be a good thing. So to those of you who read this and love your DA/SA I am not disparaging that format, I am pointing out that in my opinion it can be a more difficult format.

Personally I am a revolver guy. I always carry my j frame snubby in my pocket because it is practical when I am working. If I want something more when I am not working I leave the j frame in my pocket and belt carry a bigger S&W revolver. Same function, same manual of arms. My snubby is hammerless, but when I practice with my larger revolvers with hammers I only shoot D/A.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

There's some great advice here. For starter guns I usully tell people to start with a Glock 17 or 19, SigSauer 229 or 226, or and M&P (with required action work) all in 9mm. They're all common affordable, easy to find, easy to service guns. Most anyone is going to find that they like one of these guns. I've nothing against Rugers, Berettas, etc. I just try to make the job of getting that first one easier.

I'd take issue with the recommendation of a 1911 though. While great guns, I don't consider them starter guns, especially for carry.

 

[NuCentMAn]

Repition is also a really big factor for whatever you get. There is less of a learning curve with DAO or striker fired weapons but practice is still required. As for DA/SA, the learning curve is a bit steeper and unconcscious intelligence (being able to confidently acheive a physical act without having to really concentrate on it, i.e. muscle memory) takes longer to acquire, and you have to be more careful with the more complicated sytems such as de-cocking like Goose stated or unconventional magazine release. The more complicated your system the less you want to confuse yourself by working with several different styles of weapons, for example my carry weapon is a sig, so I try to stick to sig platform weapons when I just go out casual target shooting so as to not interupt the repetition I've built up by practicing with my carry weapon. Just a few other things to consider.

 

[piman]

There's some great advice here. For starter guns I usully tell people to start with a Glock 17 or 19, SigSauer 229 or 226, or and M&P (with required action work) all in 9mm. They're all common affordable, easy to find, easy to service guns. Most anyone is going to find that they like one of these guns. I've nothing against Rugers, Berettas, etc. I just try to make the job of getting that first one easier.

I'd take issue with the recommendation of a 1911 though. While great guns, I don't consider them starter guns, especially for carry.

I'm intrigued, why? Can't be weight as the 229/226 is possibly heavier than some models. It's a great grip so might help newbies as opposed to say the Glock. Controls are simple, no DA/SA. Lots of after market to grow into...

I'm relatively new to gun carrying and have a 229 and 1911s. While I love the 229, it's up for sale in the classifieds... The Officers model in 9 or even 45 make great carry guns and I'm sure lots of folks will say the full size isn't hard to conceal as well. They are more expensive in our wonderful state and choice for new is rather limited but S&W makes great 1911s.

The wisest thing to do is to try... I, for one, found that as much as I tried I could never fall in love with a Glock...


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[BradM]

I carry a Sig P226 which is a DA/SA firearm. I've never had any issue adapting to a DA first shot followed by SA subsequent shots. Decocking levers on most DA/SA firearms are easy to use, not sure why some people find them cumbersome of complicated.

the best advice has already been mentioned multiple times, try as many types of handguns as you can before you make up your mind. It may sound expensive if you have to rent 8 or 10 guns but in the long run you're doing yourself justice. Going "green" and coming to a Green shoot is another great way to put a lot of different guns in your hands for short money too.

 

[pupchow]

My M&P .40 suits me just fine, even in its Mass-compliant state. No safety device to muss with and no mag disconnect to be concerned about. Hundreds of rounds through it with no hangups. The trigger may be heavy but it's consistent, and I don't want for it to be any lighter. It is a sometimes carry but primarily home defense gun for me. The gun points well with a very natural grip and is plenty accurate. I like it very much for what it is, and am very happy with it as my first center-fire handgun.

 

[appraiser]

a 1911 carried in cocked and locked mode is not for the novice IMHO

I am not someone who subscribes to loaded with the safety on when CCW'ing. I want to break leather and come up firing. If I forget to remove the safety in the heat of the moment, I've put myself in danger. I am not proficient enough with a 1911 to even consider carrying one cocked and locked.


Although my preferred gun is a Glock, I do have a certain fondness for hammers on semi automatics. I have a Beretta 8000 that I think is a work of art. I had a Sig P225 that I am kicking myself I sold.

I have a 642 and a model 60, and the 60 is still my favorite of the two, I like the SA/DA option in a revolver.

You need to find what works for you, what you can conceal, afford, and most importantly be proficient with.

P.S. have you purchased a .22LR pistol or revolver yet? Before you go running out and spending money on a CCW gun, I would suggest a 22 target pistol to hone your skills with. You can buy a nice .22 and shoot it all weekend for what it would cost you in ammo to shoot a 9mm or .40 for a couple of hours.

I would also encourage you, heck implore you to go find a copy of Massad Ayoobs book " In The Gravest Extreme" and read it... TWICE.
Learn it , love it, live it. One of the best firearms books for the new gun owner.

 

[saltydude]

I'd take issue with the recommendation of a 1911 though. While great guns, I don't consider them starter guns, especially for carry.

a 1911 carried in cocked and locked mode is not for the novice IMHO
I am not proficient enough with a 1911 to even consider carrying one cocked and locked.

Gee that's funny. When I first joined NES I posted the same opinion and the pro 1911 bunch jumped all over me & called me crazy!!
Common guys where are you all now??

ETA: Link http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/89458-1911-pros-and-cons/page8

 

[JRyan]

All of these guns are simple machines with simple controls.

I agree with the try before buy and pick what you gravitate towards, then practice with it, marksmanship etc. and safe handling.

 

[ridgeman06]

Thank you all for all of your constructive advice. I appreciate it very much. While I am awaiting my permit approval, I will try to get some shooting rental time. I work only a few minutes from Smith and Wesson, so I need to get my butt over there after work and try out a couple of their M&P's, and maybe something else too. This will help me to find out what works for me.
It sounds like the DAO model like the M&P may be the way to go. I like what Pupchow said.
Thanks, Eric

 

[appraiser]

If you do get a M&P, make sure you take it to Greg Derr down in Marshfield for one of his trigger jobs

 

[TheRoland]

It sounds like the DAO model like the M&P may be the way to go.

[Nit-pick] The M&P is, in fact, striker-fired, and really isn't accurately described as double action. You can't pull trigger twice without resetting the sear (by having the slide cycle). It's much closer to single action only.

 

[pupchow]

[Nit-pick] The M&P is, in fact, striker-fired, and really isn't accurately described as double action. You can't pull trigger twice without resetting the sear (by having the slide cycle). It's much closer to single action only.

Yes. And it being striker fired allows me to carry it with a round chambered & ready to go, with much confidence that a safety is not necessary. One less task to deal with. And again, the stout trigger is not offputting in the least to me for the intended use of the gun, self-defense. For extended range sessions, it can get to be a bit much. But I have other guns for that.