newbies learning m-110

[coachjpg]

I find little info on the M-110, so I thought I'd write up our experiences here. This is just a brain dump of my impressions, in hopes that folks considering the M-110 might find this useful. I'm just an old 1911 guy, trying to help some kids learn to shoot, so please forgive my ignorance about rifles.

The kids on our shooting team are interested in high-power competition. I got a garand and taught them the basics. We went to a few CMP clinics and newbie-friendly high-power matches, where they got to try loaner AR-15s. They've been training with .22 rifles also, to keep ammo costs down. I got my NRA Rifle Instructor and Rifle Coach certifications, so I'd have a clue. (I know certification is no substitute for experience, but it's better than nothing.)

The kids like the power of the garand, and the accuracy of the AR. They did their research, and learned that the M-110 is legal in Service Rifle competition. Armalite gave us a great deal, so now I'm learning the M-110, which is a particular AR-10 configuration (Armalite #10A4BNMF). We carefully followed the barrel break-in procedure, and in the process discovered that the rear sight didn't have enough windage adjustment. It hit the left side of the sight while the rounds were still impacting at 3:00 outside the black.

So I learned about loosening the gas block to adjust the windage of the front sight. Now the rifle is zeroed with the rear windage adjustment centered, and I now own a torque wrench appropriate for gun screws.

The manual talks about heavy lube in some places, and light lube in others. I think I managed to get too much lube on the firing pin when I cleaned it after breaking in the barrel. I got a light strike failure to fire on my first round today, after which I had no problems at all.

I notice that soft-point rounds get deformed in the magazine. I'm sure that doesn't help my accuracy, which would be more of a concern if I were a better marksman.

Procuring and converting pre-ban 20-rd mags is tedious, but not overly difficult. Armalite provides kits and instructions. GOAL was very helpful on the legalities.

The match barrel is heavy. It takes some upper body strength to fire it offhand. For offhand, our smaller shooters will have to stick with the M1 Carbine and AR-15 until they grow.

I got a bipod and bean-bag, which I know will have to come off for Service Rifle competition. When I showed my kid how to dry-fire using bipod and bean-bag, he burst out "That's CHEATING!!". Kids make me laugh.

Firing prone with the bipod and bean-bag, I find I need a cheek pad to get a good stock weld. I don't need it firing prone from a sling, or using the bipod from a bench. When firing prone with the bipod, the rifle is so low to the ground that I can't get my head as vertical, so I need the cheek pad.

While sighting in from the bench with bipod and bean-bag, I managed to keep 5 shots in a 2" group from 100 yards several times. I can reliably keep a 20-rd magazine within a 5" bull at 100 yards. This from a 1911 shooter using soft-point WWB ammo. I'm sure a better marksman using better ammo would produce much smaller groups.

The rifle comes with removable NM iron sights, with a set of different apertures for the rear sight. I have trouble changing apertures with my thick fingers. If anyone could point me to a tool for this, I'd be grateful.

I've read people who recommend "loading the bipod". I learned that varying the bipod loading produces dramatic vertical stringing, up to 12" variation. Since I want a zero that also works reasonably well without a bipod, I shot without loading the bipod.

After 2 range sessions and a bunch of dry firing, I find Armalite M-110 heavy, accurate, reliable, and easy to maintain. The people at Armalite have been great to our kids. The rifle is far more accurate that I am. Now all I need to do is shoot smaller groups.



(The 5" spotting scope is overkill at 100 yards. I had hoped to get to the longer ranges today, but by the time I was zeroed, the longer ranges were closed. Maybe next Sunday...)

 

[Jasper]

Good for getting the kids into it, but from a fellow coach (and one with relevant experience with NRA/CMP high-power), please, take this as a friendly criticism

an AR10 is *not* a good choice for across the course...especially for beginners.

*recoil. AR10's have it. so do AR15s, but no where near as much. especially for a small-framed shooter, it's going to be far more unwieldy than its .223 counterpart....particularly in rapids.

*ammo costs. .308 match ammo is nearly $1/round. the same .223 is ~ $0.38/round

*legality. the AR10/M110 IS indeed a legal "service rifle"....for NRA competition only. the AMU uses them for Long Range only (1000yard). the CMP has *not* certified the AR10 as a legal service rifle, so you cannot use one in EIC matches.

*expense. Armalite gave you a good deal I'm sure, but you can buy RRA "National Match" A2's @ Perry for ~ $800/ea (and thats for anyone, not a special price for a juniors program)

*fit/weight. AR10s are heavy. no getting around that. they also use a MUCH larger buffer tube and stock. The NRA and CMP both legalize A1 length stocks and "Mini" A2 style stocks (I want to say its either an 8.5 or 10.5" minimum length) for "Shooters of smaller stature". There is no such stock available for the AR10 to help with *fit* for a kid.



now, don't get me wrong. i WANT an M110 (I'd love to chase the Mustin Trophy someday)...I just don't think it's a good choice for across-the-course work...no matter what size/age you are.

 

[coachjpg]

I guess that's why there's so little info out there on the M-110.

Compared to the Garand, weight, recoil, and cost of the M-110 seem similar. I realize the AR-15 is smaller, lighter, cheaper, and legal in CMP competition.

The kids are very motivated to master the M-110, so I'm doing what I can to support them. They fired loaner AR-15s at CMP clinics and NRA matches. Those were great learning experiences, but they didn't come away with enthusiasm for the AR-15.

It sounds like we'll be getting AR-15s if they demonstrate sustained interest in high power competition.

Thanks for your guidance.
-jpg

 

[bpm990d]

Nice rifle. Make sure to go to Reading and Nashua and do some full distance shooting with it.

One word of advice, don't let the youths be in the drivers seat, that is the role of the coach. They will flourish if guidance and boundaries are in place. It's your job to take them from a place where they are enthusiastic for exploration (shooting the M1 because it is big and loud), to a place where they are motivated by discipline and mastery of a skill (shooting 10s & Xs repeatedly in all positions). They wont be able to master the rifle, until they master the skill. It will be significantly easier to master the skill with an AR.

B

 

[Roy Rogers]

Informative post, Coach, thanks, and excellent work you're doing to get more kids involved in shooting!

 

[wmass]

I have the same rifle with a PRS stock. Yes it is heavy. But I also find the weight to help reduce the recoil. By removing the quadrail and getting Armalite's smooth free float tube you'd save 1/4 lb. Not much but noticeable since it's at the barrel. Slash's heavy buffers seem to be the go to in the Armalite community for recoil management. For pre-ban 20 rd mags contact Armalite. They sold me converted M14 GI mags for $35 a piece (not always listed on their site, call em.) I have 5 of them with zero issues. I have a preference towards .308 but it gets costly. Also, I do not compete.

 

[coachjpg]

Thanks wmass. We can't change the float tube if we want it to qualify as an M-110 in NRA competition.

I'll read up on buffers, though I don't see recoil as a problem. We have some old military bolt guns with steel butt plates, a Steyer M95 and a Mosin. Full-power loads in those old rifles kick! The kids like learning to shoot the old guns, though the recoil does help keep the round counts down.

The weight of the gun is not a problem for most of our shooters. Most of them are athletes who weigh over 160 lbs, and they have no trouble with the weight. Our youngest shooter is 10 years old and 80 lbs. He could handle the M-110 from a bipod, but it would be too much weight for him to shoot offhand. He has the same issues with the Garand. We also have some young ladies whose upper body strength is probably a better match for a lighter rifle.

In terms of weight and expense, I see the M-110 as very similar to the Garand. Kids who can handle one can handle the other. The Garand is simpler to own in Mass, since it is not a high capacity firearm, so there are fewer legal restrictions to observe. Experts tell me the M-110 is inherently more accurate. Both rifles are more accurate that I am. The M-110 is certainly easier to scope.

 

[Jasper]

Nice rifle. Make sure to go to Reading and Nashua and do some full distance shooting with it.

One word of advice, don't let the youths be in the drivers seat, that is the role of the coach. They will flourish if guidance and boundaries are in place. It's your job to take them from a place where they are enthusiastic for exploration (shooting the M1 because it is big and loud), to a place where they are motivated by discipline and mastery of a skill (shooting 10s & Xs repeatedly in all positions). They wont be able to master the rifle, until they master the skill. It will be significantly easier to master the skill with an AR.

B

Well put, and believe me, ^^this guy knows what he's talking about

The kids certainly need boundaries. The junior's I've got KNOW that what I say on the range is gospel. That being said, we do like to mix it up on occasion (Me and jasons actually set up a mini "rattle battle" match for the kids to shoot last week, just to break up the monotony of 3P small bore shooting). It was a welcome break from the routine...and gave them a chance to practice their "skills" under a time limit, and under "stress". Come next week, we'll be back to the grindstone, back to practicing fundamentals.)

Given the chance...any kid would love to blast away, loving the feeling of that power, and not have to spend so much time focusing on the minor details that make up a good, SOLID position. It's satisfying as a coach/mentor when they start to "get it", and start shooting lots more 10's. That's the magic moment where it goes from just shooting, to a REAL desire for perfection.

 

[coachjpg]

I hear what you guys are saying regarding not letting the kids run the program. We focus on teaching them the fundamentals, preparing them to be safe, competent, and competitive shooters. We do what we can to expose them to a variety of shooting disciplines.

These kids have been shooting Scholastic Steel Challenge for a year. That's 9mm pistols shooting steel targets, where your score is your time. They get plenty of "blasting away" time there. They've all been through NRA Basic Pistol, and those over 15 all have their Mass Firearms ID cards.

As part of their firearms education, we've also taught them how to shoot single and double action revolvers, a cap-lock muzzle loader, and a range of old military rifles, from a trap-door springfield used in the Spanish American War, to a Steyer M85 used in the Hugarian Revolution, to a Mosin and a Garand used in WW2 and an M1 Carbine used in the Korean War. Using weapons that "were there" helps them connect to the history they read in books. They've also learned to operate the AK, SKS, and AR, using rifles that never saw combat.

For "basic skills" training, we mostly use the .22. They need to master the .22 before they graduate to centerfire rifles. That's how we handle pistol training also. They develop and demonstrate competence with the .22 before they graduate to centerfire pistols.

I've coached many of these kids since they were in kindergarten, in soccer, then football, and now shooting. Discipline is not a problem. On the range, they've reached the point where they police themselves. I continue to supervise, of course, but I rarely need to make corrections. When something needs to be said, one of the more experienced kids usually says it before I do. They are extremely safety conscious, because they know it's important, they know shooting is a privilege easily lost, and because their peers demand it of them. They also know I'll come down hard on them if they do anything unsafe, but frankly, I think peer pressure worries them more than fear of the coach. (We worked hard to develop this peer pressure. They won't always have a coach around, so we coaches do all we can to develop proper habits that will keep them safe whether we're around or not.)

I'm new to high power, and I appreciate you guys taking the time to provide guidance.