NFA items in MA

42!

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A question for the the NES braintrust.

As an 07 FFL in MA you can have and transport an MG. But if you have an 07 FFL and an MG in NH, can you bring it, along with ammo, to a range in MA? Or does this require additional MA licensing?
 
You can NOT have a MG with only a FFL, you need a SOT also, at $500 a year. I was told by ATF agents at the Shot Show that if the MG is registered to your SOT, you can take it anywhere in the country that MGs are legal and comply with local laws. I would not want to the be one that tests it with the MA AG.

If a MG is registered to you as an individual, you can take it to any state where MGs are legal, after you have filed a form (forget the number) with the AFT and receive their approval reply and comply with local laws.
 
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A question for the the NES braintrust.

As an 07 FFL in MA you can have and transport an MG. But if you have an 07 FFL and an MG in NH, can you bring it, along with ammo, to a range in MA? Or does this require additional MA licensing?

You would still need an MA machinegun license regardless. "green card".
 
If your town will issue a MG lic. Green Card even as an 07 FFL with an SOT you cant even leave your shop with it not even going out to the range to test. Mass gun law you have to have a MG Lic.
 
You would still need an MA machinegun license regardless. "green card".
I don’t agree with you on this statement.

First, look at valid reasons to get a green card. There are only two. Instructor of police and bona fide collector

You will notice that 07/sot with or without ma dealer license is not listed as a reason for issue.

If you are not a MA resident you can get an LTC from the town where you have your business but not a machine gun license.

A MA dealers license includes the right to sell, lease, etc machine guns.

This all sets up to imply that the dealer license is sufficient for possession of the machine gun at the state level and a SOT combined with 01, 07 or few other FFLs covers federal level.

Now the exemption from possession of a machine gun, carrying a life sentence, is permission under 140 131. This is the LTC and green card section. So this says you need the green card or could be charged. But the position many take is the series of laws I stated above are an affirmative defense from this charge since you can’t get the green card because you are a dealer and a dealer is licensed to sell machine guns.

We all know many 07/SOT from towns that don’t issue green cards that manufacture and possess machine guns that are in their business bound book.

You can never buy as an individual a machine gun without a green card. I believe as a dealer you can posses one on your book.
 
I don’t agree with you on this statement.

First, look at valid reasons to get a green card. There are only two. Instructor of police and bona fide collector

You will notice that 07/sot with or without ma dealer license is not listed as a reason for issue.

That's meaningless crap though. In reality the PD just picks something and presses the button.

If you are not a MA resident you can get an LTC from the town where you have your business but not a machine gun license.

Lol someone tell a few different dealers that, because I've met more than one dealer with a machine gun license issued from the town his business is in. Likely a classic example of EOPS not caring or whatever when they minted the license, or the PD just assuming that an MG license was the same and pressing buttons.

A MA dealers license includes the right to sell, lease, etc machine guns.

This all sets up to imply that the dealer license is sufficient for possession of the machine gun at the state level and a SOT combined with 01, 07 or few other FFLs covers federal level.

Now the exemption from possession of a machine gun, carrying a life sentence, is permission under 140 131. This is the LTC and green card section. So this says you need the green card or could be charged. But the position many take is the series of laws I stated above are an affirmative defense from this charge since you can’t get the green card because you are a dealer and a dealer is licensed to sell machine guns.

We all know many 07/SOT from towns that don’t issue green cards that manufacture and possess machine guns that are in their business bound book.

You can never buy as an individual a machine gun without a green card. I believe as a dealer you can posses one on your book.


True enough, I also failed to comprehend the critical part of 42's post which was:

"As an 07 FFL in MA " (this almost implies near certain licensing under S122).

And my brain read it as "foreign 07 FFL" for which, my original assertion would still mostly apply. As it would also apply to any MA 07 who had not yet obtained an S122 license.

S122 people get "special shit" like immunity from AWB, etc, too.

-Mike
 
That's meaningless crap though. In reality the PD just picks something and presses the button.



Lol someone tell a few different dealers that, because I've met more than one dealer with a machine gun license issued from the town his business is in. Likely a classic example of EOPS not caring or whatever when they minted the license, or the PD just assuming that an MG license was the same and pressing buttons.




True enough, I also failed to comprehend the critical part of 42's post which was:

"As an 07 FFL in MA " (this almost implies near certain licensing under S122).

And my brain read it as "foreign 07 FFL" for which, my original assertion would still mostly apply. As it would also apply to any MA 07 who had not yet obtained an S122 license.

S122 people get "special shit" like immunity from AWB, etc, too.

-Mike

Exempt from AWB, magazine capacity limits, etc.

I can believe some towns issue green cards to dealers even though the law does not permit that as a valid reason. Call me shocked that people both don’t know the law and don’t apply it consistently.

I have an 03 and live in a town that will issue a green card so am good and this is all theoretical for me. The town my business is in will NOT issue a green card to a dealer. This puts some others into the situation of relying on the dealer exemption logic.

On the original question, out of state 07/sot is certainly legal from a federal level to possess in MA but not under MA law. Life in prison level not legal.
 
I'm going to have to go back and look, but I was pretty sure the 07/SOT with an address in MA would cover an MG in MA. Even without a MA dealers license.
So the question was would a 07/SOT with a NH address cover someone possessing an MG while in MA
With no business or residence in MA, any type of MA license is NOT part of the equation.

Based on the responses so far it's clear as mud
 
I'm going to have to go back and look, but I was pretty sure the 07/SOT with an address in MA would cover an MG in MA. Even without a MA dealers license.
So the question was would a 07/SOT with a NH address cover someone possessing an MG while in MA
With no business or residence in MA, any type of MA license is NOT part of the equation.

Based on the responses so far it's clear as mud
Strictly talking about MA law and not federal

The SOT gets you nothing under MA law
The 07 FFL gets you exactly one thing by itself, silencers. MGL chap 269 sec 10A. This is where a federal manufacturer makes you exempt from the law making silencers illegal

All the goodness comes from your MA Dealers license. Per MGL chap 140 sec 121 (very end), you are exempt from sections 122 to 129D, inclusive, and sections 131, 131A, 131B and 131E.

Some of the stuff requires MA Dealer and FFL.

There is no explicit exemption for MG outside the green card. The MA dealer exemption is a series of logical conclusions based on other laws. Since this is MA, logical conclusions that permit GUNZ are likely to be troublesome.

There is no exemption or series of logical conclusions that leads to a non MA dealer who is a 07/SOT somewhere else being allowed to possess a MG in MA. Illegal possession of a MG is a life sentence, so not something you want to take out for a test drive to see what is legal.
 
I posed this question to the attorney who came to my shop as part of the MIRCS training in early 2017, she said an 07/02 does not need a green card for MG possession. Obviously that verbal exchange is worth nothing legally, but she seemed to be familiar with the question.

Strictly talking about MA law and not federal

The SOT gets you nothing under MA law
The 07 FFL gets you exactly one thing by itself, silencers. MGL chap 269 sec 10A. This is where a federal manufacturer makes you exempt from the law making silencers illegal

All the goodness comes from your MA Dealers license. Per MGL chap 140 sec 121 (very end), you are exempt from sections 122 to 129D, inclusive, and sections 131, 131A, 131B and 131E.

Some of the stuff requires MA Dealer and FFL.

There is no explicit exemption for MG outside the green card. The MA dealer exemption is a series of logical conclusions based on other laws. Since this is MA, logical conclusions that permit GUNZ are likely to be troublesome.

There is no exemption or series of logical conclusions that leads to a non MA dealer who is a 07/SOT somewhere else being allowed to possess a MG in MA. Illegal possession of a MG is a life sentence, so not something you want to take out for a test drive to see what is legal.
 
Billerica will not issue a green card to anyone, full stop.

It won’t even issue one to someone with all of a dealer’s license, FFL07, and SOT.
 
You would still need an MA machinegun license regardless. "green card".

If your town will issue a MG lic. Green Card even as an 07 FFL with an SOT you cant even leave your shop with it not even going out to the range to test. Mass gun law you have to have a MG Lic.

Exempt from AWB, magazine capacity limits, etc.

I can believe some towns issue green cards to dealers even though the law does not permit that as a valid reason. Call me shocked that people both don’t know the law and don’t apply it consistently.

I have an 03 and live in a town that will issue a green card so am good and this is all theoretical for me. The town my business is in will NOT issue a green card to a dealer. This puts some others into the situation of relying on the dealer exemption logic.

On the original question, out of state 07/sot is certainly legal from a federal level to possess in MA but not under MA law. Life in prison level not legal.

Is there a thread or a map of what towns issue the MG licenses? Say someone was considering moving to Mass and knew that they would pursue the bona fide collector route. Or how do you approach the question with the police chief? "Hey Chieffy, how bout dem green cahds?"
 
Strictly talking about MA law and not federal

The SOT gets you nothing under MA law
The 07 FFL gets you exactly one thing by itself, silencers. MGL chap 269 sec 10A. This is where a federal manufacturer makes you exempt from the law making silencers illegal

All the goodness comes from your MA Dealers license. Per MGL chap 140 sec 121 (very end), you are exempt from sections 122 to 129D, inclusive, and sections 131, 131A, 131B and 131E.

Some of the stuff requires MA Dealer and FFL.

There is no explicit exemption for MG outside the green card. The MA dealer exemption is a series of logical conclusions based on other laws. Since this is MA, logical conclusions that permit GUNZ are likely to be troublesome.

There is no exemption or series of logical conclusions that leads to a non MA dealer who is a 07/SOT somewhere else being allowed to possess a MG in MA. Illegal possession of a MG is a life sentence, so not something you want to take out for a test drive to see what is legal.

CrackPot, this sounds well thought out, obviously others have other opinions. Could you help me out by giving me a frame of reference, are you a dealer, lawyer, ATF, Maura, or like me, someone who does research on topics of interest.

And for everyone's information, I am not about to take a chance on something like this, I may exceed the speed limit from time to time, but even if I had an MG I wouldn't be playing chicken with the MA Po Po, that would be a special kind of stupid.


You are not exempt. The law states only federal licensed manufactures can posses them.

Well where do I start.... First , go back and read my posts, you will see that the scenario I've outlined is specifically about an 07FFL. Then check the law, which definitely allows an MG for residents that have a "Green Card" (MG license). But this isn't the senario I was asking about.
 
Is there a thread or a map of what towns issue the MG licenses? Say someone was considering moving to Mass and knew that they would pursue the bona fide collector route. Or how do you approach the question with the police chief? "Hey Chieffy, how bout dem green cahds?"

No, you walk into the station and shout "machine gun" to get their attention, then politely say "I'd like to apply for a license". Extra points if you bring a semi-auto AR with you as a prop to help explain the differences. [laugh][rofl][laugh]
 
NFA in Mass is really not that complicated.The folks who have studied the 700 pages of fed and state regs have a good handle on it. Start there. What you have "been told" by PD an even ATF agents sometimes won't fly. I was once told by ATF that, as an 07, I could only sell what I manufacture. I know an ATF investigator who is pissed because they want a MG and can't get a GREEN CARD because they can't get the 03. (conflict of interest). All NFA items are not alike. The regs applying to MGs and suppressors are not identical. My two cents. Jack.
 
Strange info and NES go hand in hand.
I was hoping Len might comment, but I know he's got his plate pretty full right now.
I am a 07/SOT and MA dealer. IANAL but do legal and contract negotiations as part of my day job.

My opinions and advise are worth everything you paid for them.

I have disclosed I have my green card which is important for understanding my perspective. I have looked pretty hard into this for colleagues at the Mill who understand I am not providing legal advise, just my understandings.

This is not Len’s area as he has focused on gun owners and extreme risk avoidance. Being a dealer is a whole different set of issues to comprehend.

Always remember, MA law essentially disregards federal law and the standing of an FFL. Anything gun related in MA is first and foremost about MA law and not about what is legal federally.
 
I posed this question to the attorney who came to my shop as part of the MIRCS training in early 2017, she said an 07/02 does not need a green card for MG possession. Obviously that verbal exchange is worth nothing legally, but she seemed to be familiar with the question.
Well its definitely worth more legally listening to advice from a lawyer than random people from a forum who probably mostly dont even have an FFL themselves with little to no first hand experience
 
You are not exempt. The law states only federal licensed manufactures can posses them.
True, you also need an SOT, greencards are only for people who dont have an FFL with an SOT who want machine guns for personal/recreational use rather than for inventory/manufacturing/test firing as an 07/02 in Mass
 
True, you also need an SOT, greencards are only for people who dont have an FFL with an SOT who want machine guns for personal/recreational use rather than for inventory/manufacturing/test firing as an 07/02 in Mass
As stated above , the two purposes of a green card are: Instructor of police and bona fide collector, not "personal/recreational" use or all lawful purposes.
FYI: If you are EDC'ing your Uzi, you are probably breaking the law.
 
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