NFA trust - Mass and New Hampshire - Supressor

[Rate_of_Twist]

I have looked around extensively, and I believe this situation is very possible and legal within the confines of a NFA trust

I, for now am still stuck in Mass. I have a LTC. I owe property in NH but do not reside there yet.

My brother and shooting partner lives in NH.

If we setup a NFA trust we can both purchase on behalf of the trust Supressors provided they are stored in and never enter Mass EVEN THOUGH I'M STILL A MASS RESIDENT.

This would in theory also apply to SBS, SBR and DD but NOT machine guns as I can't get a permit.

Does this sound correct?

 

[ChevyGuy91]

He would have to do the paperwork as it is just like buying a gun, but once it is owned by the trust, any trustee can use it within the confines of the law to their heart's content.

 

[JRT]

I have looked around extensively, and I believe this situation is very possible and legal within the confines of a NFA trust

I, for now am still stuck in Mass. I have a LTC. I owe property in NH but do not reside there yet.

My brother and shooting partner lives in NH.

If we setup a NFA trust we can both purchase on behalf of the trust Supressors provided they are stored in and never enter Mass EVEN THOUGH I'M STILL A MASS RESIDENT.

This would in theory also apply to SBS, SBR and DD but NOT machine guns as I can't get a permit.

Does this sound correct?

You could buy a machine gun in the trust as well. As Ed noted the original buyer would have to be a NH resident. The trust does not care that you live in Mass.

 

[Kevin_NH]

While the trust does not care that you live in MA, the new rules (ATF Final Rule 41F) require sending a notification to your local chief of police.

Under current ATF rules, a complete copy of every Form 1, Form 4 or Form 5 goes to the chief law enforcement officer for each responsible persons named in the trust or legal entity, and each responsible person is required to undergo a background check.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Under current ATF rules, a complete copy of every Form 1, Form 4 or Form 5 goes to the chief law enforcement officer for each responsible persons named in the trust or legal entity, and each responsible person is required to undergo a background check.

Just got an NFA stamp under the new rules. Photo and print card required for each trustee.

 

[ScottS]

Form a trust, using only NH trustees (responsible persons). Buy NFA item(s). Upon receipt of NFA item(s), add MA resident as trustee. No CLEO notification and no finger prints/photos for newly-added MA-resident trustee.

CLEO, photos, prints only required for trustees at time of Form 1/4 submission (some argue at time of approval. No matter). Until/unless the trust acquires additional NFA items with MA-resident as trustee, MA-resident flies under the radar.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Interesting, so I guess I haven't actually looked into this since 41F. This may make my precious assumptions wrong I guess

 

[Kevin_NH]

Form a trust, using only NH trustees (responsible persons). Buy NFA item(s). Upon receipt of NFA item(s), add MA resident as trustee. No CLEO notification and no finger prints/photos for newly-added MA-resident trustee.

CLEO, photos, prints only required for trustees at time of Form 1/4 submission (some argue at time of approval. No matter). Until/unless the trust acquires additional NFA items with MA-resident as trustee, MA-resident flies under the radar.

That matches up with ATF's FAQ:

Q: Will new responsible persons, added after the making or transfer, be subject to the same requirements?
A: Once an application has been approved, no documentation is required to be submitted to ATF when a new responsible person is added to a trust or legal entity. However, should a responsible person change after the application has been submitted, but before it is approved, the applicant or transferee must contact the NFA Branch for guidance.

So the NH resident can create the trust, make the purchase, file the paperwork, and then after the application is approved, can add and remove trustees and beneficiaries without any additional paperwork.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Form a trust, using only NH trustees (responsible persons). Buy NFA item(s). Upon receipt of NFA item(s), add MA resident as trustee. No CLEO notification and no finger prints/photos for newly-added MA-resident trustee.

CLEO, photos, prints only required for trustees at time of Form 1/4 submission (some argue at time of approval. No matter). Until/unless the trust acquires additional NFA items with MA-resident as trustee, MA-resident flies under the radar.

Well there you go. Thanks!

 

[ScottS]

That matches up with ATF's FAQ:

So the NH resident can create the trust, make the purchase, file the paperwork, and then after the application is approved, can add and remove trustees and beneficiaries without any additional paperwork.

That is correct. The "Responsible Person" forms, prints, etc. are only submitted at time of Form 1/4 submission. There's no obligation to "update" the ATF on trust changes, nor any vehicle with which to do so.

 

[LuvDog]

Here's a question: If you are the only person in your trust (setup in MA), but you also own a house in a free state. Could you buy the NFA item while your are in that state with your free state address and submit all forms to the CLEO of that free state town? The item would remain out of MA at all times if not legal to possess in MA.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Here's a question: If you are the only person in your trust (setup in MA), but you also own a house in a free state. Could you buy the NFA item while your are in that state with your free state address and submit all forms to the CLEO of that free state town? The item would remain out of MA at all times if not legal to possess in MA.

You still do a 4473 when you buy NFA items, so no.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Here's a question: If you are the only person in your trust (setup in MA), but you also own a house in a free state. Could you buy the NFA item while your are in that state with your free state address and submit all forms to the CLEO of that free state town? The item would remain out of MA at all times if not legal to possess in MA.

You still do a 4473 when you buy NFA items, so no.

It'd be the same issues and process if you were buying a handgun using your free state address.

A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y

 

[LuvDog]

It'd be the same issues and process if you were buying a handgun using your free state address.

That's what I was wondering... I understand the 4473 for a firearm purchase, and was hoping it was the same for an NFA item, but wasn't sure.

 

[Valkyrie 3]

I have looked around extensively, and I believe this situation is very possible and legal within the confines of a NFA trust

I, for now am still stuck in Mass. I have a LTC. I owe property in NH but do not reside there yet.

My brother and shooting partner lives in NH.

If we setup a NFA trust we can both purchase on behalf of the trust Supressors provided they are stored in and never enter Mass EVEN THOUGH I'M STILL A MASS RESIDENT.

This would in theory also apply to SBS, SBR and DD but NOT machine guns as I can't get a permit.

Does this sound correct?

I had a similar question, If the purchase of an NFA regulated firearm or silencer cannot be approved in an individuals State of residence because of a prohibition in said state but the individual has sole ownership of a house in a state where the purchase can be approved, can the individual establish a trust or legal entity in the other state for the purpose of lawful purchase and identify the individually owned house in that state as the location at which the regulated item will be maintained? Is anyone here a MA resident with property in NH and managed to buy NFA items without the assistance of a NH resident?

 

[Valkyrie 3]

Contact these folks, they do NFA trust nationwide for $100 and are very easy to work with:

Order a Trust - NFA Trusts

 

[Valkyrie 3]

Here's a question: If you are the only person in your trust (setup in MA), but you also own a house in a free state. Could you buy the NFA item while your are in that state with your free state address and submit all forms to the CLEO of that free state town? The item would remain out of MA at all times if not legal to possess in MA.

That is exactly what I want to know.

 

[RockMaple]

Here's a question: If you are the only person in your trust (setup in MA), but you also own a house in a free state. Could you buy the NFA item while your are in that state with your free state address and submit all forms to the CLEO of that free state town? The item would remain out of MA at all times if not legal to possess in MA.

Yes, you could acquire an NFA item while in your second state of residence (whether or not you use a gun trust). See Instruction # 2 to Form 4473.

 

[67ray]

This is interesting because you need to register the form 4 to a specific address and it doesn't look like whether you have a trust or not makes any difference on the form. Most likely up to finding a class 3 dealer who would do the transfer but why not it is worth a shot.

 

[Nessy]

The real question is why not do an NFA trust (seperate) for every NFA trust you own (once you have a good template it is just changing the items etc) and add/remove sole trustees instead of conducting a transfer?

 

[67ray]

The form 4 has a place where you have to list all the trustees. So you would have to have a crystal ball to know the persons name the day you fill out the form.