NICS requiring address for delayed and denied

CrackPot

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Today when we do a background check, we do not enter your current address, just your state of residence. Now we will have to include your address if we get a response other than proceed. So for all the people that get routinely delayed whether because of some irrelevant record in the system or because you are a permanent resident, we will soon be entering your complete address. And if you get a denied, it will be transmitted to local law authorities.

There are a couple known glitches in NICS that result in false denied. One customer from the very scary state of Canada gets denied about one in 5 backgrounds. This happens because the ICE computer is down when the NICS investigator checks that they are still in the country lawfully. I know this because they once called me to double check when it happens rather than hit “denied” and after waiting an hour it came back approved. A second customer has a UPIN. Randomly sometimes it still comes back denied implying they ignored the UPIN.

Now these customers will potentially be subject to local police investigation because NICS is incompetent.





NICS Denial Notification Act


Synopsis: On or around 9/26/2022, FFLs will be prompted to provide the address of the buyer on all denied or delayed transactions. Read below for more details.



The Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2022 (hereinafter “Act”) was signed into law on
March 15, 2022. Section 1101 of the Act included the “NICS Denial Notification Act of 2022.” The Act requires the Attorney General to report background check denials to state authorities and will require the FBI Criminal Justice Information Services Division’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) Section to report all FBI NICS denied transactions to local law enforcement within 24 hours beginning October 1, 2022. The NICS Section plans to implement this change on September 26, 2022.



The denial notification will include the date and time of the denial, the reason for the denial, the location of the federal firearms licensee (FFL), and the identity of the person. The NICS denial notifications will be transmitted electronically to the appropriate receiving authorities within each state based on the city, state, county, and zip code combination of the FFL location and the city, state, county, and if different, the zip code combination of the attempted transferee’s home address. If at any time, the original denial is changed to a proceed, an updated notification to those agencies originally notified will be required.



The NICS Section is working diligently on developing the tools to make this notification as seamless as possible. To make the necessary notifications, all FFLs will be required to provide the buyer’s complete address as recorded on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Form 4473. For FFLs who initiate a check by contacting the NICS Contracted Call Center (NCCC), the address will be required if the customer receives a delay or a denied status. The information will be required before the status is provided by the NCCC. For FFLs that initiate the check through the NICS E-Check, the address will be required if the customer receives a delay or denied response. The response will not be retrievable until the information is provided. Once the system is updated to allow for the capturing of this information an additional notification will be provided. In addition, if the transfer occurs at a qualifying gun show, future programming may allow for the full address of the gun show location to be entered also.
 
I wonder what level of LE.

Counties are just about toothless here, towns are hit and miss and some don't even have a PD, and the state is often tied up dealing with highway stuff and/or covering the towns with no PD.

It's either going to be an administrative burden to keep the records, or some bored cops are going to get doors slammed on them when they go to harass people about their delay.

So glass half full-less cops on the road running radar or pulling folks over for inspection stickers.

Glass half empty-we need more cops and staff we can't afford to cover this federal requirement.
 
Will they wait the full 5 days? If not will they forward the proceed? Just more bureaucratic crap.
They only forward if you get denied. The get the address on delayed since it might turn into a denied.

There is no "5 days". The requirement on delayed is that after 3 full business days the FFL can release the gun. Not in play here since it only causes notification on Denied
 
This is hardly unexpected. Many go on about enforcing current laws not passing new ones. Well in order to go after a PP that tries to buy a gun they need the address information and would need to notify local LE. Does this mean false denials get caught in the same net... YUP. No way around that since they don't know its a false denial until after.

And I'm kind of surprised this wasn't already the case, I mean wouldn' they want all the info if a PP was trying to buy a guy? I'm not saying I agree with all the BS, that's a separate issue, just surprised that given the current laws this wasn't already routine.
 
This is hardly unexpected. Many go on about enforcing current laws not passing new ones. Well in order to go after a PP that tries to buy a gun they need the address information and would need to notify local LE. Does this mean false denials get caught in the same net... YUP. No way around that since they don't know its a false denial until after.

And I'm kind of surprised this wasn't already the case, I mean wouldn' they want all the info if a PP was trying to buy a guy? I'm not saying I agree with all the BS, that's a separate issue, just surprised that given the current laws this wasn't already routine.

This.
 
This will be interesting as NH is now a second amendment sanctuary state....
yes, it is. but a lot of people here on nes don't see past today. the political fabric of n.h. is changing...ever so slowly...so slow that no one is noticing. i've said this many time before, for every massachusetts gun owner escaping to the land of milk and honey north of us, 20 more not so gun friendly people are moving in also, but to escape taxes and the cost of living, not restrictive gun laws. i wish i had an answer.
 
yes, it is. but a lot of people here on nes don't see past today. the political fabric of n.h. is changing...ever so slowly...so slow that no one is noticing. i've said this many time before, for every massachusetts gun owner escaping to the land of milk and honey north of us, 20 more not so gun friendly people are moving in also, but to escape taxes and the cost of living, not restrictive gun laws. i wish i had an answer.
The only good communist is a dead communist. That’s your answer.
 
yes, it is. but a lot of people here on nes don't see past today. the political fabric of n.h. is changing...ever so slowly...so slow that no one is noticing. i've said this many time before, for every massachusetts gun owner escaping to the land of milk and honey north of us, 20 more not so gun friendly people are moving in also, but to escape taxes and the cost of living, not restrictive gun laws. i wish i had an answer.

Can we not turn this into one of those threads? Please. for the love of god.

Thank You
 
As someone that gets delayed every single f***ing time, I guess I won’t be using FFLs anymore…

Read post #7, the bad thing only happens if you end up getting denied. The class of people falsely denied is small but not nearly as huge as the false/long delay class, which is
gigantic.

All of these people need to figure out how to sue the feds, especially the false denials. Those people often get hung up for months before being able to legally purchase a gun that they
were already 100% legal to buy. The government has deprived them of rights without due process. "Guilty until proven innocent" model of NICS is not due process.
 
@CrackPot have they more precisely defined what "local law enforcement" means ? Is it the PD in the town the "applicant" lives in, or where the shop is located? or are they going to let states determine this- EG if its MA, they would have that stuff sent to CHSB, or in NH it goes to the state police. In NH its already 50% redundant anyways because state LE knows when someone gets denied on a handgun/lower/etc. (and they already know where 95% of them live because the NH DL tells them so, lol)

ETA: I reread it, it seems this is relevant, but not conclusive...

"The NICS denial notifications will be transmitted electronically to the appropriate receiving authorities within each state based on the city, state, county, and zip code combination of the FFL location and the city, state, county, and if different, the zip code combination of the attempted transferee’s home address. "

lol who are "appropriate receiving authorities" though
 
As someone that gets delayed every single f***ing time, I guess I won’t be using FFLs anymore…
I’ve never been ‘delayed’ other than just having to wait a day for a response back at the beginning of the kung flu panic.

It used to be, rifle, proceed immediately, handgun, go down the street, grab one, maybe
Two beers at a bar, and they call you during your second beer to come pickup handgun.

Last gun I bought a few months ago (I honestly forget what I bought) but the hardest part was getting NH on the horn, I felt bad for the FFL had to stay on hold for over 20 minutes. Once they finally answered and proceeded I picked out $700+ of ammo etc, and he waived the transfer fee ($25 bux)....now I remember, it was a ‘let’s go Brandon’ lower transferred as other, obviously.
 
@CrackPot have they more precisely defined what "local law enforcement" means ? Is it the PD in the town the "applicant" lives in, or where the shop is located? or are they going to let states determine this- EG if its MA, they would have that stuff sent to CHSB, or in NH it goes to the state police. In NH its already 50% redundant anyways because state LE knows when someone gets denied on a handgun/lower/etc. (and they already know where 95% of them live because the NH DL tells them so, lol)

ETA: I reread it, it seems this is relevant, but not conclusive...

"The NICS denial notifications will be transmitted electronically to the appropriate receiving authorities within each state based on the city, state, county, and zip code combination of the FFL location and the city, state, county, and if different, the zip code combination of the attempted transferee’s home address. "

lol who are "appropriate receiving authorities" though
I know nothing more then the email. I guess we wait to find out…
 
I am the king of delays,most of the time it's about 45 minutes.
 
From the 2020-2021 NICS Operational Report.

In 2020, there were 24,748 firearm-related appeals resulting in 17,928 sustained denied transactions. In 2021, there were 24,095 requests resulting in 16,930 sustained denied transactions.

So “let’s crunch the numbers”. In 2020 6,820 appeals overturned the NICS denial (27.6%). In 2021 7,165 appeals overturned the NICS denial (29.7%). So well over a quarter of the NICS denials that are appealed get overturned, not exactly an awe inspiring accuracy.

Granted that most denials are not appealed.

In 2020, there were 185,384 transactions denied, and 153,565 transactions were denied in 2021.

So only 13.3% of denials were appealed in 2020 and 15.7% in 2021. So looking at the percentage of total denials that get overturned you still get 3.7% in 2020 and 4.7% in 2021. I would think a rate of even 1% of people being incorrectly denied an enumerated Constitutional right is too high.
 
f*** this, I get delayed every time. It stopped once I got a UPIN, but only for a few transactions. My last two purchases were also delayed. WTF! I'm not a PP and have never been denied. So f*** the ATF and the FBI with this bullshit. Get your system in order and then we can talk about collecting addresses. Any doucebag coming to my residence asking questions will be interrogated on video until I determine whether they are a suitable person of good moral character and whether they have a definitive need to be such a cockbite.
 
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