Mesatchornug
NES Member
You could teach them to not be ok with this...
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NYT: Here’s What We Can Do Now About Gun Violence
- Thread starter MaverickNH
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the link between gun violence and licensing is a red herring. I saw some stats where something like 90+% of 'gun violence' is 'criminal enterprise related' (e.g., gang) shootings. If you're not
involved in a criminal enterprise the chances of being killed are pretty low in absolute terms (e.g., 1/100,000) which is higher than other 1st world countries but
not much.
involved in a criminal enterprise the chances of being killed are pretty low in absolute terms (e.g., 1/100,000) which is higher than other 1st world countries but
not much.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
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as i understand the evolv type of AI powered system will be able to use exterior body biometrics and movement pattern for identification no matter how you try to hide your features.
just a matter of how much data is collected on the individual from previous sessions.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
Beat me to it.
Gait recognition starts making things really scary.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt0WoO7cZJ8
This thread (including shoe rocks!) is about 49% of the plot to Little Brother (free ebook here)
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "Gun Violence". It's just another leftist made up term to change the language from a rational legal debate to a social engineering and public propagandizing rhetoric.
Voilence is Violence, regardless of any tool used or not to perpetrate it.
Violence is a human phenomenon, not the product of an inanimate object.
Voilence is Violence, regardless of any tool used or not to perpetrate it.
Violence is a human phenomenon, not the product of an inanimate object.
GL2020
NES Member
If these ID's are so easy to get why the resistance to voter ID?
Frankly I'm dubious of the initial claim. I'm sure NICS does more than just check a name, since a name is not a unique identifier.
I wish it were it would save a whole lot of extra programming with unique ID in the computer world. Plus the entire premise that people are buying guns over the counter with a fakeID flies in the face of common sense.
Frankly I'm dubious of the initial claim. I'm sure NICS does more than just check a name, since a name is not a unique identifier.
I wish it were it would save a whole lot of extra programming with unique ID in the computer world. Plus the entire premise that people are buying guns over the counter with a fakeID flies in the face of common sense.
For NICS, dealer passes along the name, sex, race address, and place & date of birth. Optionally the buyer can also supply a SSN and/or UPIN.
28 CFR § 25.7 - Querying records in the system.
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Naaaaaa that would never be abused to the max.
hammahed
NES Member
Sure, why not? Don't even need that much to vote or cash a welfare check. Both have far greater consequences to society than the less than 1% of gun crimes committed by legally licensed gun owners.
Nobody would know if there was one. Unless the ATF actually documents and investigates the causes then it's just another failed gun trace. Traces can fail for a ton of reasons. (Eg, original owner dies, etc).
Regardless the whole BG check system is a joke, it punishes the law abiding more than anyone else. (In terms of delays etc) It makes brawndo guzzlers feel good.
NICS doesn't do anything except check against databases of actual or potentially prohibited persons. It doesn't "know" people beyond that save for people with UPINs, some classes of lawful immigrants etc. In other words, if someone puts in Heywood Jablome, 10 Douchebag Lane, Hollywood FL born in nyc, dob 1/2/58, brown hair brown eyes 6'8" 250 lbs, the system just eats it like a dog sucking down a fresh cat turd, and if no match, green light.
Tons of states have their own nics pocs that add extra lists of s***. Most of this is feel good bull crap but some of it was also a vestige of the brady wait era. NH only ever had a handgun poc because without it, in the brady era all handguns would have been a 3 day wait. All of that stuff is gone now but most of the POCs remain because it makes NPC retards feel safe and warmy.
do they at least check the DL number against the nameNICS doesn't do anything except check against databases of actual or potentially prohibited persons. It doesn't "know" people beyond that save for people with UPINs, some classes of lawful immigrants etc. In other words, if someone puts in Heywood Jablome, 10 Douchebag Lane, Hollywood FL born in nyc, dob 1/2/58, brown hair brown eyes 6'8" 250 lbs, the system just eats it like a dog sucking down a fresh cat turd, and if no match, green light.
Tons of states have their own nics pocs that add extra lists of s***. Most of this is feel good bull crap but some of it was also a vestige of the brady wait era. NH only ever had a handgun poc because without it, in the brady era all handguns would have been a 3 day wait. All of that stuff is gone now but most of the POCs remain because it makes NPC retards feel safe and warmy.
Seems it would be easy to run the DL and name, that would tie in the address. This would make basic fakes dificult. You would need to start with a stolen ID. And of course the DL also has a physical description.
So you starting point would have to be a stolen ID with matching DL # and address, and physical description that is close enough, Oh and you have to hope that person isn't PP or you've wasted you time.
That's a fair amount that has to match up before they even start digging deep.
Sure it can be done, but I don't think getting away with it is as easy as people thing. The analogy of buying booze doesn't really fit. When you by booze all they do is look at the pic and the birthday, they are not looking to match anything with a known DB.
Sure the NH nics poc (probably) does that (because humans there touch all the transactions) but good luck otherwise. So you're telling me NICS goes to blanket admin delay if some other states system is down?
It only becomes difficult depending on the level of access NICS has to those systems.
Also it's patently obvious the AI based check just wholesale ignores certain parameters.
@42! But for what its worth, in principle I agree with you.... I think bad people don't resort to doing that, simply because it's cheaper to find a crackhead or whore, that somehow doesn't have a criminal record to straw guns from than it is to create a fraudulent identification that looks credible enough to pass.....
Don't be ridiculous. LE systems go down all the time, I know first hand. By pure luck, or the most incredible undocumented failover system in the world, there are often multiple paths to the same data, so it ends up looking more like a short delay than something being offline. It's true this often involve humans at the municipal and county levels but as you move up the systems become more formally fault tolerant. By the time you're into the Fed system they are actually building in survivability.Sure the NH nics poc (probably) does that (because humans there touch all the transactions) but good luck otherwise. So you're telling me NICS goes to blanket admin delay if some other states system is down?
It only becomes difficult depending on the level of access NICS has to those systems.
Also it's patently obvious the AI based check just wholesale ignores certain parameters.
But let's look at your scenario. A fed system reaches out to a state DB, which is unreachable. It's one query out of 10s of thousands. More than likely it's a short term delay of an hour or less and that's all anyone sees. A short delay on one out of many. Maybe it's down longer, and a human gets involved. You're still only looking at a day delay of one query out of many.
Basically, the quantity and minimal impact of the likely issues hides the problem among a sea of successful queries. Ultimately the systems are far more reliable than the people that put the data into them.
You want to see improvements in NICS accuracy and speed, fine the humans responsible for screwing up the data entry.
neum69
NES Member
The problem that citizens have guns.
I'm not being rediculous, what I'm suggesting is the integration is not likely as great as the level you think it is at. Also there is no input validation on some of those systems/fields. Anyone who has ever bought a gun in mass knows this if they unknowingly had an unactivated LTC and they plopped it on the counter. You will pass your fed BG check and then you cant get the gun (unless its a frame, which requires no EFA10) because of the EFA10 system not taking your license. By definition those licenses should return a failure against a query if NICS was actually doing it. It's quite obviously not, its simply being logged as part of the NICS query, probably because NICS has no way of actually checking it.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
ETA: My point is, some of those fields you could literally type gibberish in and the system is literally only going to deny you if it matches something bad, it's not going to validate the data for being legit. I dont know why this is so hard for people to understand.
Are people exploiting it? Probably not... because of what I alluded to earlier (its easier for a badguy to get a crackhead or a whore to eat a felony for them) but NICS itself is looser than a truck stop whore, to put it mildly. Believing otherwise is silly.
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Why would the Fed NICS check care about your MA LTC? The Feds can't deny you because your MA LTC is invalid. It's only going to check what Fed law allows. There is no Fed law that says you have to have a state license, imagine the problems this would cause in states that don't require a permission slip.I'm not being rediculous, what I'm suggesting is the integration is not likely as great as the level you think it is at. Also there is no input validation on some of those systems/fields. Anyone who has ever bought a gun in mass knows this if they unknowingly had an unactivated LTC and they plopped it on the counter. You will pass your fed BG check and then you cant get the gun (unless its a frame, which requires no EFA10) because of the EFA10 system not taking your license. By definition those licenses should return a failure against a query if NICS was actually doing it. It's quite obviously not, its simply being logged as part of the NICS query, probably because NICS has no way of actually checking it.
ETA: My point is, some of those fields you could literally type gibberish in and the system is literally only going to deny you if it matches something bad, it's not going to validate the data for being legit. I dont know why this is so hard for people to understand.
Are people exploiting it? Probably not... because of what I alluded to earlier (its easier for a badguy to get a crackhead or a whore to eat a felony for them) but NICS itself is looser than a truck stop whore, to put it mildly. Believing otherwise is silly.
This is why the eFA10 does check you MA LTC.
You can use an LTC as a SOLE form of ID to buy a gun. That number gets put in the check, thats my point.
My point is some people believe that DL/ID numbers are validated by nics. It is pretty easy to prove that this is not consistent.
IMHO that field is, at best, an assistive thing to an examiner in terms of fixing problems with delays, false identification etc. I wouldn't assume its
"checked automatically" or that someone gets delayed if a lookup fails... probably because it's not being looked up, except in special circumstances like I mentioned earlier.
Well I don't have any insight into if they do or do not validate the photo ID data. Frankly, I would hope they do, seems very basic part of the process and without it the rest loses meaning fast. And although I don't think it's being abusused to any great extent, it does call into question the validity of the process. And if we are going to have to live with it, it should at least be what it claims to be.You can use an LTC as a SOLE form of ID to buy a gun. That number gets put in the check, thats my point.
My point is some people believe that DL/ID numbers are validated by nics. It is pretty easy to prove that this is not consistent.
IMHO that field is, at best, an assistive thing to an examiner in terms of fixing problems with delays, false identification etc. I wouldn't assume its
"checked automatically" or that someone gets delayed if a lookup fails... probably because it's not being looked up, except in special circumstances like I mentioned earlier.
So, you Fed boys out there, how about settling the argument. We know you are listening
![[devil]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/015.gif "Devil [devil]")
neum69
NES Member
This guy has no idea how NCIC & background checks work
Opinion | Here’s What We Can Do Now About Gun Violence
Fixing the background check system can be done today, but it will take work.www.nytimes.com
“A more basic NICS flaw involves simply identifying the prospective gun buyer. In 2023, are we really going to continue to allow purchasers to show only a driver’s license, an easily and regularly forged document? Every college student in America who wants a beer has a forged driver’s license. As far back as 2001, investigators from what is now the Government Accountability Office were able to purchase firearms in five states using counterfeit licenses. Today’s technology — and common sense — argues that buyers should be required to provide fingerprints, which would be read at a gun store by a scanner and then searched in the F.B.I.’s computerized fingerprint database, which is operated closely with the states. Such checks can be completed within a few hours. I’ll stipulate that for successful purchasers, all traces of the search would need to be destroyed immediately to satisfy privacy concerns…
Gun policy progressives grouse that other proposed NICS changes could be more important — closing the loophole that exempts gun shows and private transactions from NICS and closing the so-called Charleston loophole, which forces the system to approve gun sales after three days even if investigators need more time to unearth relevant records, as happened in the massacre there. Fair enough. But those issues at this time are politically gridlocked. That’s a fact.
But closing other NICS loopholes is a task within our grasp. Isn’t that more important than watching helplessly as the death toll continues to grow?"
This author, Gordon Wilson, somehow thinks that a better NICS background check system will stop mass shootings. It wouldn’t even make a noticeable dent in garden-variety one-at-a-time suicides and homicides. Fake IDs and fingerprints? A solution in search of a problem. And he’s stealing one of Trump’s taglines!
"What kind of shithole country gives more rights to a gun than to a woman?" Gordon Wilson
