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Odd Question - LEOSA applies to Off-Duty MPs in Mass?

MisterHappy

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Had a discussion today, WRT whether an MP (off duty, reserve) could carry "on the badge" (though apparently they're not issued badges) or do they need an LTC?

I'm not talking about an MP under arms, in uniform, but one that's in the reserves, for instance, strapping on his own gat.

Does not apply to me, just want to know.
 
I'm not a LEOSA expert, but I had an MP tell me recently that they'd be receiving LEOSA credentials from the army. That was apparently sufficient for Boston to lift this person's LTC restriction.
 
That would kind of defeat the purpose of LEOSA credentials. The LTC would be necessary in order to purchase firearms or ammunition however.

MA made it a legal requirement. In order to keep your retired LEOSA ID even, you must maintain a MA LTC no matter where you live!!
 
I always thought MP only had powers on post. Plus they're not issued guns they turn them over at the end of their shifts....I think.
 
I always thought MP only had powers on post. Plus they're not issued guns they turn them over at the end of their shifts....I think.

This is what got me. I'm not .mil, but I always thought that MPs ( and their analogues in other branches) were Army cops for army people, not cops that happened to be in the army.

This was the basis of my confusion - that an MP, not under orders (such as prisoner transport) or otherwise under arms, would be allowed to carry, just because. Almost makes it look like the .gov is trying to blend the military and the cops....

The only interaction I've ever had was on Ft. Devens 35 years ago, when I got my first speeding ticket ($17).
 
The whole purpose of LEOSA was to short circuit local laws. If the LEOSA credentials are issued by a non-Mass agency, how can they enforce this?

I know well what the purpose was as I was tracking this legislation from 1990 onward. MA voted against it, the MCOPA was dead-set against it and GCAB drafted the CMR in direct violation of the federal law. I was at the CMR hearing and the GCAB meeting right afterwards. It was probably the turning point for my working relationship with Glidden as took gross objection to his and his committee's position on the matter.


This is what got me. I'm not .mil, but I always thought that MPs ( and their analogues in other branches) were Army cops for army people, not cops that happened to be in the army.

This was the basis of my confusion - that an MP, not under orders (such as prisoner transport) or otherwise under arms, would be allowed to carry, just because. Almost makes it look like the .gov is trying to blend the military and the cops....

The only interaction I've ever had was on Ft. Devens 35 years ago, when I got my first speeding ticket ($17).

Keep in mind who writes the laws! Legistraitors get "influenced" (or palms greased) to propose and vote certain ways. This was a recent modification to the LEOSA law.
 
On a similar note, I have a friend who is in the reserves and they are tasked with security while on mission. Apparently this qualified him as LEOSA and he took the class to get it. ( I may be stating this wrong as I'm not really familiar with leosa and how it works). He does have a MA LTC. He thought the LEOSA thing would qualify him to be able to have post ban AR mags and carry anywhere. He was also told that silhouette targets are illegal in MA. I told him I wouldn't have a lot of faith in the training he received if they're telling him that!
 
^ if thats the case I'm about to be even more pissed that as county jail guard I don't qualify. I always said cali needs a quake to put it in the pacific. I'm starting to think the same for everything east of 495.
 
On a similar note, I have a friend who is in the reserves and they are tasked with security while on mission. Apparently this qualified him as LEOSA and he took the class to get it. ( I may be stating this wrong as I'm not really familiar with leosa and how it works). He does have a MA LTC. He thought the LEOSA thing would qualify him to be able to have post ban AR mags and carry anywhere. He was also told that silhouette targets are illegal in MA. I told him I wouldn't have a lot of faith in the training he received if they're telling him that!

If he's under orders, then the rules are different. He can have a post-ban tank.

The initial question was whether an MP can carry in the PRM, just because they're an MP.

Not talking about the new .mil exemption WRT a MSP-approved safety class.....though if the "gun laws" portion of the Mass class is not being addressed by the military instructors, I can see plenty of vets getting jammed up, due to lack of intel.

Good comment about the targets.
 
^ if thats the case I'm about to be even more pissed that as county jail guard I don't qualify. I always said cali needs a quake to put it in the pacific. I'm starting to think the same for everything east of 495.

East of 495. [laugh]

I've always thought that if 250-300 miles inland from the coasts just snapped off the country and floated away into the ocean that would be a good start just to make sure none of the loonies escape.
 
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"In 2013, LEOSA was again amended by the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for Fiscal Year 2013, effective January 2, 2013 after President Obama signed Public Law 112-239 (H.R. 4310).[3] Section 1089 of the NDAA contained language which further clarified that military police officers and civilian police officers employed by the U.S. Government unambiguously met the definitions in the original Act. The definitions of "qualified active" and "qualified retired" law enforcement officer include the term "police officers" and expanded the powers of arrest requirement definition to include those who have or had the authority to "apprehend" suspects under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Senator Patrick Leahy, a key sponsor of the bill, remarked "The Senate has agreed to extend that trust to the law enforcement officers that serve within our military. They are no less deserving or worthy of this privilege and I am very pleased we have acted to equalize their treatment under the federal law". He further stated "The amendment we adopt today will place military police and civilian police officers within the Department of Defense on equal footing with their law enforcement counterparts across the country when it comes to coverage under LEOSA."
 
LEOSA applies to ALL military law enforcement personnel, officer, WO and enslited; ACTIVE, GUARD AND RESERVE, who have powers of apprehension under the UCMJ and are issued and assigned to formal job, rate, MOS, AFSC, duty position, etc as military law enforcement; Army CID, AF OSI, military personnel assigned to NCIS, CGIS, CG base police, AF Security Forces, correction specialists, master at arms, of all branches, investigators, IG, DCIS, DIS, Pentagon Police, MP Army, MP USMC, DOD civilian law enforcement of all branches and the DOD and any others I am or may be missing. Army counter intelligence agents for example, carry badge and credentials and firearms and have apprehension and investigation powers, although generally limited to intel matters, they have the same powers as do CID agents technically. They were always included by the verbiage of LEOSA and their duties, but recently, the Army formally cleared that up and included them too. As long as they are LE and have a military-issued photo ID credential(s). ALL branches of the armed forces have avenues to issue their LE troops such. Also former active, Guard and Reserve MPs who were honorably discharged with over 10 years as an MP qualify, as do honorable retirees with over 10 years in a LE field. Recently, the Army finally added couter intelligence CI agents too, to CID, MP and DOD police. This provides, as long as you qualify to the standards of your old agency or thru an agency or private firearms trainer who is authorized by the standards of the state in which you now permanently reside to do annual qualification, and have agency issued photo ID as a retired cop, you're good to go and federal law trumps state law. You CAN'T BE UNDER THE INFLUENCE WHEN SO CARRYING. I have retired civilian police ID from NC where I was a chief after serving up the ranks for 23 years. Now, I am getting the LEOSA credential too, to keep in my safe deposit box with my passport, in case I ever lose the state ID and cant get a replacement. Remember: agencies MAY issue the retiree credential, but don't HAVE to, and private police, even if fully POST trained, certified and sworn do now count, such as non-federal railroad police, private college and school campus police nad private hospital police. NC extends the retiree privileges to retired private police within NC, and grants them the same rights as local, state, federal and military LE retirees under federal law-LEOSA, but that ends at the state lines. LEOSA also covers probation officers and correction officers, who have limited powers of arrest and don't always carry firearms, but CAN. Reserve, special, auxiliary and part-time officers who have ten years or more of honorable service are also covered. Being retired for mental instability is a disqualifier. NC issues a pocket card, good for one year, so if a cop stops you, you declare being CCH LEOSA, and they get shitty and demand proof of "annual qualification" you can produce it. It is small and fits with credentials easily. It is $50.00. Option B is to carry a copy of your range card or annual range qualification report from your state, agency or state of residence. Option C is to produce it at trial if you are charged. I have a pal, retired NC state officer, now lives just over the line in SC> He comes back once a year and goes to the range with his old agency and they let him tag along. Me, I get it done one on one and pay a firearms instructor pal a small fee and he runs me thru.
 
private college and school campus police nad private hospital police.
LEOSA requires that you work for some gov't agency in a LE role. That DQs private college/hospital/school police.

I'd like to see a citation for this info that you claim. I have a friend who did his career in a private college PD, retired as a Lt. and prosecutor for said college PD and is left out in the cold.

I'm a LE retiree and MSP certified LEOSA instructor as well as expertise in Mass gun laws, so I'm more than a little interested in what you claim.

Thanks for your service Chief and welcome to the forum.
 
Remember the out of state campus cop that had his car stolen over at a South Bay area hotel with a firearm in it?

He was LEOSA covered as he was a campus cop with powers of arrest and required to carry a weapon

Many Campus Cops derive their powers as "specials", for example to be a Tufts Campus PD you are sworn as a Middlesex and Suffolk County Deputy of some sort. Is that enough to get them in on LEOSA?

As for the comment above from the Correctional Officer, IMHO if ANYONE deserved to be at the top of the list for LEOSA protection, carrying a weapon on duty or not as part of the job it is a C.O..

And to the comment about local departments requiring a LTC as a condition of employment or continued employment, it gives local departments a way to get rid of bad people. I know one now retired cop who could not get a LTC and had to leave his weapon at the station when off duty, he carried "on the badge", but under Lautenburg there is no exemption for LEO's so if you have a Officer who gets jammed up on a 209A order ( and yes I know the process is terribly abused by false allegations) so you either get sent to the evidence room, records office, or some closet to finish out your career, or the department cuts you loose. Second DWI and you are toast these days where before it was broomed and you kept your job on most departments
 
LEOs who work for private companies/colleges are covered by LEOSA only while employed. Once they leave/retired, they lose LEOSA.
 
LEOs who work for private companies/colleges are covered by LEOSA only while employed. Once they leave/retired, they lose LEOSA.
Len, Does MA require a special ID for retired police to be LEOSA recognized? Would it be as easy as having a retired credential issued from your department? I'm specifically referring to an LEO who didn't work for a MA department
 
Len, Does MA require a special ID for retired police to be LEOSA recognized? Would it be as easy as having a retired credential issued from your department? I'm specifically referring to an LEO who didn't work for a MA department

I thought that was universally a LEOSA requirement- EG, LEOSA doesn't work for retirees unless you have a "Retired Officer" ID of some sort from whatever agency you worked
for.
 
Len, Does MA require a special ID for retired police to be LEOSA recognized? Would it be as easy as having a retired credential issued from your department? I'm specifically referring to an LEO who didn't work for a MA department
Originally MA PDs issued all sorts of IDs, but LEOSA requires specific language/info to be on said ID. So MCOPA created a unique LE ID that all MA LEOs are supposed to possess for LEOSA. Once retired, the ID has the word "Retired" in red on the ID. Retired also has to carry the MSP Certificate of annual training (which is 8.5x11) . . . I photo reduce mine and laminate it. The official ID has two state seals on it plus your PD's patch and two pictures. No PD is required to issue said ID, however (the LEOSA law doesn't require issuance), so many are screwed by their departments.
 
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