Off the grid living while bugging in: solar power and hydroponics

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Silverguns6

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Somewhat along the lines of my thread bugging in vs. bugging out.
I don't have easy access to a "Cabin in the hills," but I do have my home and access to my parents home. Some issues which could alert the not so lucky straglers and turn your situation upside down with both bugging in and bugging out are things like:
-Sound of a generator
-Smoke from the chimney
-dogs in the yard
-clothing on a clothes line
- noticeable garden

IMHO garbage bags over all windows isn't going to work for long before you start to become completely uncomfortable while bugging in. So what can you do to maintain security, concealment from passerbys, survivablity and comfort?

-Solar powered generator. While listening to Sirius XM Patriot, an ad came on from betterinablackout. com about their solarpowered generators. Honestly, they are expensive and I can buy a similar system but with used pannels for much cheaper. I believe that refridgeration is something that no one can live without. Would you rather spend $2,000 on MREs and survival rations with 10+ year shelf life, or $2,000 on a solar power system? The solar power can do more (obviously) than that. Power a base CB or HAM radio station, power an electric space heater, AC unit, power your tools, etc.

What about a garden? Fresh produce and herbs I believe is key in a long term self reliance situation. I have a seedbank but I have no real area for a secure outdoor garden. I don't want to plot a garden outside and risk it being something to attract scavengers to someone living near it. So I have a hydroponics set up in my basement.
The items to build it are extremely inexpensive but to power the water pump, growlight, etc I need a power source; that is where the solar power comes in.
(I can provide details as to how I built my system for those interested)
Seedbanks I believe are becoming more and more popular because of the cost of quality MREs like Wise or Mountain House and the amount of space it all takes up. If you have a family of 4 and you have 2 years worth of meals, that takes up alot of space and costs alot of money. 1,000,000 mixed non GMO seeds can fill 2 5gal buckets and cost around $150. Water can be obtained when needed and nutrient rich potting soil and "plant food" is readily available and inexpensive as well.

Thanks for reading, hope some found it helpful, interesting
-Dave
 
I would spend the 2 grand on food over solar in half a heart beat. 2000 dollars buys me a lot of staples. Rice, corn, beans etc. By the time you add the batteries, panels etc you arent getting much of a solar system. Certainly not enough to power everything on your list.

How many calories a day are you getting from your hydroponic garden?

People lived for thousands of years without refrigeration and survived just fine. Why is it so important?
 
Silverguns6 said:
Somewhat along the lines of my thread bugging in vs. bugging out.
Seedbanks I believe are becoming more and more popular because of the cost of quality MREs like Wise or Mountain House and the amount of space it all takes up. If you have a family of 4 and you have 2 years worth of meals, that takes up alot of space and costs alot of money. 1,000,000 mixed non GMO seeds can fill 2 5gal buckets and cost around $150. Water can be obtained when needed and nutrient rich potting soil and "plant food" is readily available and inexpensive as well.

Thanks for reading, hope some found it helpful, interesting
-Dave
Click to expand...

What do you eat while waiting for your vegetables to grow? Especially in NE?

Was it the Goal Zero solar generator you hear about? I've been impressed with their smaller stuff, but have yet to meet anyone with one of their generators.
 
Silverguns:

I like your thinking. I like coastie's thinking too. $2K is a lot to spend on TEOTWAWKI unless you get some return on investment now (like supplementing your electric bills).

And if you travel after TSHTF, the food packs better than the panels. ;)

Personally, I think we're in for an Argentina-like financial collapse and not TEOTWAWKI situation. I know - plan for the worst and the outcome is always better. YMMV.
 
If you have any wiring skills at all you can build something pretty decent for not much money. I have been living off grid for the past year using 2 deep cycle batteries from Walmart, 140 watts of PV panel, and a xantrex C40 charge controller. If you don't deep discharge the batteries last a long time....even though they are really not made for this application.

Morningstar solar makes a "brick" that simplifies things quite a bit: Amazon.com: MorningStar SunSaver SS 20L-24 Solar Panel Battery Charge Controller: Home & Kitchen. It's got terminals for your battery, PV panel, and output. 20 amps will power led lights and a small sundanzer fridge with power to spare. If you need an inverter, you bypass the "brick" and wire to the battery direct.

MFG link: Morningstar Corporation » SunSaver

Fridge link: http://sundanzer.com/solar-power-refrigerators/chest-style/
 
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In my mind if you can get a dependable solar generator and have it wired to your home to be able to supplement your electric bill. You can recoup some of your investment even if The Ship doesn't hit the fan. Also you can sometimes use the generator to produce items for trade such as producing ICE for sale and trade or recharging batteries for people. This is of course people who are part of your network. I understand that you do not want strangers to know you have power. The chances of disaster are far less then the reality that electricity costs money... I say go solar !
 
Setting up an efficient "off grid" setup can be a significant investment if you are just learning about it. Power management is a serious thing to take a good hard look at. Things like your electric range need to go. I'd really pick the mind of members like gomer here, as they are already doing it. Gomer, Hit me up with some pm traffic, I happen to have 8 power ware SLA's that I'm going to be willing to sell for far less than what they are worth. I'd love to help someone who has a setup up and running.
 
Bugging out and hunkering down by yourself is a waste of time. You need to link up with about 40 people there is strength on numbers. Think army platoon size
 
Timber said:
What do you eat while waiting for your vegetables to grow? Especially in NE?

Was it the Goal Zero solar generator you hear about? I've been impressed with their smaller stuff, but have yet to meet anyone with one of their generators.
Click to expand...

Well I forgot to add this part lol, meat, fish, poultry, milk..all that can be obtained pretty much all over New England. Deer, Yotes, Black Bear and fox are not only a source of food, but clothing as well. In MA and NW/NE CT alone there are rivers and lakes full of Bass, Trout, catfish, Pickerel etc, in pretty much every town. I don't know about you but durring a long term self reliance situation, when I see a deer I'm going to kill it, eat it and tan the hide etc. But what do you do with what you don't eat? My group isn't 20 strong and a 300lb deer has atleast enough venicine to serve 50. Whats sounds better? Letting it go to waste or having a chest freezer hooked up to your solar power system?

I do not think it was Goal Zero, I've heared of Goal Zero though. I can PM you the website if you would like. (I don't know if I am allowed to post it on the forum) I did find a nice 5'x3' solar pannel that can charge 4 car batteries at the same time. I'm going to buy atleast 2 of them and then find a decent powerpak or some sort of portable powerstation that I can hook the pannels to.
-Dave
 
Tater said:
In my mind if you can get a dependable solar generator and have it wired to your home to be able to supplement your electric bill. You can recoup some of your investment even if The Ship doesn't hit the fan. Also you can sometimes use the generator to produce items for trade such as producing ICE for sale and trade or recharging batteries for people. This is of course people who are part of your network. I understand that you do not want strangers to know you have power. The chances of disaster are far less then the reality that electricity costs money... I say go solar !
Click to expand...

I say solar now, solar tomorrow and solar forever! (I hope that doesn't make me sound too much like Gov. George Wallace)

There is a home for sale about 1/2 mile from where I live now..His home is fully solar powered. Currently my lease here is for 8 more months...I can always make another freind though. Love thy neighbor....especially if they have something that you can benefit from.
-Dave
 
I had a guy come in the shop last night claiming he's got a working prototype of a perpetual electric motor. He want's me to help him make the parts for a larger on now. He's targeting the residential market. I'll keep you guys posted.
 
Silverguns6 said:
Well I forgot to add this part lol, meat, fish, poultry, milk..all that can be obtained pretty much all over New England. Deer, Yotes, Black Bear and fox are not only a source of food, but clothing as well. In MA and NW/NE CT alone there are rivers and lakes full of Bass, Trout, catfish, Pickerel etc, in pretty much every town. I don't know about you but durring a long term self reliance situation, when I see a deer I'm going to kill it, eat it and tan the hide etc. But what do you do with what you don't eat? My group isn't 20 strong and a 300lb deer has atleast enough venicine to serve 50. Whats sounds better? Letting it go to waste or having a chest freezer hooked up to your solar power system?

I do not think it was Goal Zero, I've heared of Goal Zero though. I can PM you the website if you would like. (I don't know if I am allowed to post it on the forum) I did find a nice 5'x3' solar pannel that can charge 4 car batteries at the same time. I'm going to buy atleast 2 of them and then find a decent powerpak or some sort of portable powerstation that I can hook the pannels to.
-Dave
Click to expand...

How many 300 lb deer have you shot in CT? or even 200 lb for that matter? If you think you are going to survive on game and fish for any length of time you are in dreamland and will starve. There wont be anything bigger than a chipmunk left in a matter of several weeks. Every single person who is hungry and has a firearm is going to be shooting at anything that moves. The waste will be tremendous but they wont care.

If you want an alternative to preserving meat in a freezer look into pressure canning it. It is easy, doesnt rely on electricity and is good for years after.
 
Other random thoughts:

Anyone that wants to become more self sufficient energy-wise and wants to add solar needs to consider some things. First, yes its possible to power a "normal" grid connected house using only solar. In this scenario forget about air conditioning, electric hot water, and electric cooking. You are gonna spend thousands (probably tens) and will still not be 100% off grid. Personally, I would not waste the effort...

A realistic goal is to have a solar system that can be used as a backup in the event of power outage. You are probably looking at 200-300 watts of PV panel and some lead acid batteries with a charge controller and a small inverter. If you have sensitive medications a system like this can power a small fridge like a Sundanzer or an Engel (the Engel is small and will work in your car too). This system can also be used as power to charge phones/tablets/laptop, charge AA/AAA/D batteries, run LED lights, small AC appliances, etc. You will still need a generator to power your fridge, well pump, and furnace. Frankly, if you need a generator to run a furnace then why bother with a battery backup system? A battery system makes a lot more sense if you have wood heat and you only run the generator for a short time each day for the well and fridge.

The ultimate goal of living 100% off grid involves some serious design decisions and lifestyle changes. My new home has been designed from the ground up to be off grid. Here are the specs for it to hopefully give you some design ideas:

+ PV Panels: 4x100w 12V panels (will expand to 600W if needed)
+ Charge Controller: Xantrex C60
+ Batteries: 360AH flooded lead acid (2x6v)
+ System monitor: Xantrex Linklite
+ Well: 12V pump (sun pumps)
+ Insulation: R60 roof, R40 walls/slab
+ Heat: wood 20,000 BTU
+ Stove: Origo 6000 alcohol stove/oven
+ Grill: propane
+ Lights: 3-6 watt LED as needed
+ Vacuum Cleaner: Automotive 12V (black and decker)
+ Electric Toaster: none (use grill)
+ Microwave Oven: none (might add a 700W unit at some point)
+ Washer: Haier HLP21N (really really small)
+ Dryer: rope and clothes pins :)
+ Fridge: Sundanzer DCR50
+ Freezer: none
+ TV: none (use iPad)
+ Computer: Macbook air, iPad, iPhone
+ Hot water: on demand propane (someday solar)
+ Air Conditioner: 5000 BTU (if needed, will operate from generator)
+ Generator: Honda EU2000i
+ Internet: DSL modem
+ Every device has a manual or automatic on/off switch

I can't imagine how tough it would be to take a "normal" home and convert it to a workable off grid house. It can be done but its gonna be a lot of work.
 
coastie said:
If you want an alternative to preserving meat in a freezer look into pressure canning it. It is easy, doesnt rely on electricity and is good for years after.
Click to expand...

Just make sure you apply for your LTC (license to can) with your CLEO because pressure cookers are evil...unless they are pre-ban.
 
GomerPile said:
Just make sure you apply for your LTC (license to can) with your CLEO because pressure cookers are evil...unless they are pre-ban.
Click to expand...

My canners are all 30 plus years old so they are preban large capacity. What I need to find out is if they are transferrable or not.
 
Buggin said:
I had a guy come in the shop last night claiming he's got a working prototype of a perpetual electric motor. He want's me to help him make the parts for a larger on now. He's targeting the residential market. I'll keep you guys posted.
Click to expand...

What is a perpetual electric motor?
 
There's no such thing as perpetual motion. Energy will always dissipate, meaning the motion will eventually cease. It's a hoax.
Click to expand...

I'll find out when he brings in the prototype won't I?
Whether it works or not, I get paid for the parts I make.
I'll let you know when I see it running.
 
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Buggin said:
Generator. My bad. Using Perpetual Motion Generators to Save on Home Electricity
Alot of people say they've done it. Nobodies selling them yet that I know of.
Click to expand...

The laws of physics dictate that this is a hoax. Yes the generator can produce energy, but the amount of energy used to run the generator is more than what is returned. It is impossible to get more output energy than input energy, anywhere in the universe for all eternity. Nothing is 100 percent efficient and certainly nothing is 100+ percent efficient. Energy is always used up in moving parts, or converted from electrical energy to other forms ie heat.
 
rommel said:
The laws of physics dictate that this is a hoax. Yes the generator can produce energy, but the amount of energy used to run the generator is more than what is returned. It is impossible to get more output energy than input energy, anywhere in the universe for all eternity. Nothing is 100 percent efficient and certainly nothing is 100+ percent efficient. Energy is always used up in moving parts, or converted from electrical energy to other forms ie heat.
Click to expand...

Do your laws of physics account for the fact that it has some serious magnets?
 
1800 watt solar generator huh? Great for some lighting, but not much else you can run on 1800W. I think that would barely run a fridge's compressor. For two grand, I think I'd be better off buying batteries and an big inverter. Charge the batteries while on generator.

I would love to live "off the grid" as they say, but unless you have some pretty deep pockets or you started working on this years ago, it seems like an impossible pipe dream.
 

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