Open Carry v Concealed Carry - Legal / permit

[Texasgrillchef]

"...open carry is regarded as a Right, and though any citizen may call the police if they observe someone carrying a gun openly, that citizen's 'annoyance and alarm' does not override the Right to carry openly."​

I've seen folk open carrying in urban New Hampshire (e.g. Manchester) without "problems", other than perhaps being politely asked to leave by private businesses valuing the patronage of pearl-clutching yentas. I generally only OC out in the woods, for example at this time of year because it's easier to carry a bear-rated gun that way.

I don’t want to get into the pros and cons of OC/CC. But one nice thing about states that allow CC/OC is that it makes carrying to much easier especially if you accidentally expose, or some other (non sd) instance requires the temporary need to expose for short periods. Something that some states without OC but have CC get very touchy about. Some don’t even like Imprinting.

As far as private business go and CC/OC, either way, if they don’t want you in their place with a gun. Be polite and leave, and then decide for yourself if you want to continue doing business with them.

I for one will never OC/CC wherever it isn’t legal to do so.

 

[JRT]

Like those in Philly? Please. Festering shithole. And judging by the election results I would say Pennsylvania as a whole will be following suit soon.

Do a little research before you make a retarded statement. Republicans won seats in both chambers of Pennsylvania state government. We also took three of four statewide elections, unseating incumbents. Our commonwealth courts continue to overturn any attempts at limiting our rights.

 

[fencer]

Do a little research before you make a retarded statement. Republicans won seats in both chambers of Pennsylvania state government. We also took three of four statewide elections, unseating incumbents. Our commonwealth courts continue to overturn any attempts at limiting our rights.

Yeah OK... and Philly is not a festering shithole. I must have just gone through the bad part.

 

[JRT]

Yeah OK... and Philly is not a festering shithole. I must have just gone through the bad part.

I live in the city, my neighborhood is f***ing lit and I love it. I'm from Western PA, I'm not from Philadelphia so insulting the city isn't offending me even a little, its says more about your ignorance than anything else. You would like it here, the anti 2A people say the same kinds of things you say about open carry.

 

[fencer]

Do a little research before you make a retarded statement. Republicans won seats in both chambers of Pennsylvania state government. We also took three of four statewide elections, unseating incumbents. Our commonwealth courts continue to overturn any attempts at limiting our rights.

And to be clear about retarded statements....

This helps me understand how residents of Massachusetts have so willingly given up their rights.

Do you really think that I, or any other member of this forum, willingly gave up anything? Seriously?
Should people be able to open carry? Sure. And in many parts of Mass its not a big deal. But just because you can do something doesn't make it a good idea. You can drive with your feet too. It doesn't mean your not a moron for doing it.

 

[fencer]

I live in the city, my neighborhood is f***ing lit and I love it.

Ahhhh, there it is... it's an age thing. I don't even know what that means. Your "neighborhood is f***ing lit".
When you grow up, you will learn not to pick fights with people that make a statement you disagree with. The way a gentleman conducts himself would be to say, "I disagree with your statement about open carry, and this is why...." You see there.. that is respectful.. even civil. But when you reply to a post with a douchey statement about "willingly given up rights", that you know will illicit a response, it illustrates your immaturity.

 

[JRT]

And to be clear about retarded statements....

Do you really think that I, or any other member of this forum, willingly gave up anything? Seriously?
Should people be able to open carry? Sure. And in many parts of Mass its not a big deal. But just because you can do something doesn't make it a good idea. You can drive with your feet too. It doesn't mean your not a moron for doing it.

I'm sorry I offended you with my comments, I was offended by yours as well. I see that attitude as part of the problem, I grew up in an area where most people opened carried, people with LTCF still open carried, nobody did it to be an attention whore. Lets let it go and again, I'm sorry for my snarky comment.

Edit: Oof, I regret making this post after reading your last one. It seems you're just what I thought you were.

 

[drgrant]

LOL another OC thread.... Where everyone gets bent because someone is being a fag about OCing or not or this and that jesus christ. f***.

The ferns and the docks.

f***.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cVlTeIATBs



Seriously though if you guys had a beer summit you probably wouldn't hate each other. Most of the people here aren't dicks. It just turns out that way because of the internet. It makes it easy to step on peoples toes. And too easy to read way the f*** too far into what someone is saying.

 

[drgrant]

Edit: Oof, I regret making this post after reading your last one. It seems you're just what I thought you were.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECTt67adObI

 

[JRT]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECTt67adObI

So quick and on point!

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Just whip your dicks out already.


View: https://youtu.be/l5-CSd2GFsA

 

[Texasgrillchef]

You can drive with your feet too. It doesn't mean your not a moron for doing it.

Depends on where your doing it and how much your getting paid to do it! Lol

 

[Texasgrillchef]

LOL another OC thread.... Where everyone gets bent because someone is being a fag about OCing or not or this and that jesus christ. f***.

The ferns and the docks.

f***.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cVlTeIATBs


Seriously though if you guys had a beer summit you probably wouldn't hate each other. Most of the people here aren't dicks. It just turns out that way because of the internet. It makes it easy to step on peoples toes. And too easy to read way the f*** too far into what someone is saying.

Exactly what I asked people not to do. I just wanted to discuss the legality difference in terms of the laws and permits depending on what part of the country your in or travel too. Not a dam debate if you shouldn’t or should, or what kind of person you must be if you do or if you don’t. Uggg why can’t people we just have a sensible conversation in the differences.

Suffice it to say. If it ain’t legal to do either one, or both then you shouldn’t do it. No matter how anti-2a it may or may not be.

2nd, their is public opinion and public reactions to OC. Even when legal. Some states obviously would prefer everyone to OC over CC, and other states obviously don’t want you to OC under any circumstances. If one is OC just because they want a reaction, or piss someone off, then that’s just wrong, unless it’s part of a peaceful demonstration/protest.

With that being said, it will be interesting to see what effect Young v Hawaii and the Nichols case against California will have if they all win their respective suits. If both lose, then nothing will change at all. But if one or both win, there will be some changes at least legally speaking. Agree?

 

[Matt_SERE]

DISCLAIMER: This thread is NOT meant to be a discussion about on which way those of us carry when in public. Personally I believe that’s a decision that can only be made by the person who carries their firearm, and the legality of each based on the location that they choose to carry. So please this thread is NOT mean to discuss the pros and cons of OC v CC other then from a purely legal / permit stand point.

And yet not a question mark in the whole OP. Hmmm? Not even to ask, 'What do y'all think?'

Not Frank.

 

[Racenet]

This thread is f***ing lit!

 

[bandaid bandit]

Entirely unrelated, but I know of a dining establishment in a north shore city whose mayor was a member of MAIG where the staff and patrons didn’t bat an eye when the fat guy in cargo shorts and a tshirt sat at the counter whilst OCing (G17 with 2x 33rd spares if memory serves).

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Entirely unrelated, but I know of a dining establishment in a north shore city whose mayor was a member of MAIG where the staff and patrons didn’t bat an eye when the fat guy in cargo shorts and a tshirt sat at the counter whilst OCing (G17 with 2x 33rd spares if memory serves).

Well here in texas we have what we call 30.06 and 30.07 signs. One which bans OC and the other that bans OC and CC. Other then certain obvious government buildings and in Dallas, its quite rare to see the sign that bans OC. Most of the time you get the sign that bans OC and CC. Their is one all natural supermarket that has banned open carry but allows concealed.

The signs start popping up in areas filled with more liberal people and buisness's

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Well here in texas we have what we call 30.06 and 30.07 signs. One which bans OC and the other that bans OC and CC. Other then certain obvious government buildings and in Dallas, its quite rare to see the sign that bans OC. Most of the time you get the sign that bans OC and CC. Their is one all natural supermarket that has banned open carry but allows concealed.

The signs start popping up in areas filled with more liberal people and buisness's

What percentage comply with the required font size and bilinguality? I saw one on the door to the TX Schoolbook Depository museum that was clearly non-compliant;

 

[bandaid bandit]

Well here in texas we have what we call 30.06 and 30.07 signs. One which bans OC and the other that bans OC and CC. Other then certain obvious government buildings and in Dallas, its quite rare to see the sign that bans OC. Most of the time you get the sign that bans OC and CC. Their is one all natural supermarket that has banned open carry but allows concealed.

The signs start popping up in areas filled with more liberal people and buisness's

And, surprisingly enough, MA’s lack of binding signage laws mean that the various flavors of NO GUNS signs are worthless so long as one leaves when told by someone with control of the property.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

What percentage comply with the required font size and bilinguality? I saw one on the door to the TX Schoolbook Depository museum that was clearly non-compliant;

Well if it’s a non compliant sign, it’s non binding. Unless it’s a government building. But they are still required to post the signs out of consistentcy

 

[Texasgrillchef]

And, surprisingly enough, MA’s lack of binding signage laws mean that the various flavors of NO GUNS signs are worthless so long as one leaves when told by someone with control of the property.

Which would be a good reason to carry concealed without any form of imprinting. Much much easier for women, if they have a conceal carry purse. Or if they have a inner thigh holster under their dress. Although on very very cold days with a quality coat, it can be very easy to conceal for anyone!

If they don’t know you have it, they won’t ask you to leave.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Which would be a good reason to carry concealed without any form of imprinting. Much much easier for women, if they have a conceal carry purse. Or if they have a inner thigh holster under their dress. Although on very very cold days with a quality coat, it can be very easy to conceal for anyone!

If they don’t know you have it, they won’t ask you to leave.

The trend is for "old" carry states (MA, NY, etc.) to have few restrictions (in MA and NY schools are the only biggie, plus upstate permits not good in NYC), but places that were part of the "carry permit reform" movement have a laundry list of exclusions and/or binding signage. The older licensing processes were designed to prevent the "wrong kind of people" from carrying, whereas the new ones were legislated in an environment where there was organized opposition and a perception that "even an unimportant person can carry", and picked up signage or exclusions. MI is a great example - it even added exclusions when it went from may issue to shall issue.

This "under the radar" effect in MA is one reason why the admins will summarily dismiss "Can I carry at <insert name of non-prohibited location>". We don't want some random venue rep to find the post on Google and react with "OMFG - we have a problem to solve".

 

[Texasgrillchef]

The trend is for "old" carry states (MA, NY, etc.) to have few restrictions (in MA and NY schools are the only biggie, plus upstate permits not good in NYC), but places that were part of the "carry permit reform" movement have a laundry list of exclusions and/or binding signage. The older licensing processes were designed to prevent the "wrong kind of people" from carrying, whereas the new ones were legislated in an environment where there was organized opposition and a perception that "even an unimportant person can carry", and pickedup signage or exclusions. MI is a great example - it even added exclusions when it went from may issue to shall issue.

This "under the radar" effect in MA is one reason why the admins will summarily dismiss "Can I carry at <insert name of non-prohibited location>". We don't want some random venue rep to find the post on Google and react with "OMFG - we have a problem to solve".

You even find that level of mentality in states that have different “levels” of carry permitting. Enhanced, standard, gold, etc....

 

[Wrench75]

Doesn't Florida have a weird law, where you can open carry while hunting or fishing? There's a blogger in Florida I read regularly who writes about going to open carry "protests" which are guys open carrying while fishing.

We have that here in SC. OC is otherwise illegal, permit or not, even on your own private property.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You even find that level of mentality in states that have different “levels” of carry permitting. Enhanced, standard, gold, etc....

I'm interested in learning if any of these different levels have differences as to exclusion zones.

The "enhanced" and similar I have seen have additional requirements to make the permits more palatable to states that selectively recognize other states permits. For example, the last I checked there was at least one state from which NV would recognize an "enhanced' but not a "standard" permit. CT has a designation on the permit indicating if it also covers security guard or bail agent work.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I'm interested in learning if any of these different levels have differences as to exclusion zones.

The "enhanced" and similar I have seen have additional requirements to make the permits more palatable to states that selectively recognize other states permits. For example, the last I checked there was at least one state from which NV would recognize an "enhanced' but not a "standard" permit. CT has a designation on the permit indicating if it also covers security guard or bail agent work.

2 constitutional carry states that I know of have places that you can’t go without a permit, but can go with you have a permit to carry. One of those is Maine. Without a permit to carry, you can not carry in their state parks or in their national park. I also think that in one of the states with enhanced they allow you to carry in a few more places that their standard doesn’t.

It’s also interesting to note that Idaho which is a constitutional carry state, has two levels of LTC’s too. The main difference for them though, is that someone under 21 is not allowed to have the Idaho Enhanced LTC.

Of course that may all change if the three lawsuits for those between 18-21 win their cases at the SCOTUS level. That won’t happen though for at least 3-4 years minimum and possibly much longer. Unless Biden packs the court, we have a good chance of winning.

Same goes of the 5 or 6 cases challenging the validity of “good cause” requirements to get a permit. That is being challenged against Hawaii. California, Maryland, New Jersey, and New York (Mainly NYC).

Interesting how CT does that, yet in Texas, our LTC is generic in that anyone who wishes to carry a handgun, even if employer required simply gets the Texas LTC. I think even police officers are required to get a Texas LTC, that simply being licensed as a police officer isn’t enough. But don’t quote me on that part, I could be wrong.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It’s also interesting to note that Idaho which is a constitutional carry state, has two levels of LTC’s too. The main difference for them though, is that someone under 21 is not allowed to have the Idaho Enhanced LTC.

The ID "age 21" thing for enhanced is consistent with the purpose of enhanced - make it acceptable to several states recognition requirements.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I saw one on the door to the TX Schoolbook Depository museum that was clearly non-compliant;

Of course! Cant have any more presidents shot! LOL

 

[Kevin_NH]

I saw one on the door to the TX Schoolbook Depository museum that was clearly non-compliant;

Did it depict the silhouette of a Carcano in place of the ubiquitous Beretta 92? Or at least a S&W snubbie?

 

[bandaid bandit]

No, but the exterior side of the basement door to Dallas PD HQ has a no snubbed sign.