Optics versus Iron Sights

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I got into a couple of posts in a thread on best optics for an AR, when I realized that a thread on optics versus irons is needed.

Mods, please sticky this, as the intent is to discuss pros and cons of each, and to dispel some of the myths about each.

Posters, please do not degrade this into an argument. It's just a polite discussion as to the merits of each, and the whys behind those merits.
 
I got into a couple of posts in a thread on best optics for an AR, when I realized that a thread on optics versus irons is needed.

Mods, please sticky this, as the intent is to discuss pros and cons of each, and to dispel some of the myths about each.

Posters, please do not degrade this into an argument. It's just a polite discussion as to the merits of each, and the whys behind those merits.


There's probably about few hundred threads on this.
 
I've stubbornly refused to go with a scope and have done ok with iron sights. At least I can usually scare the bejeesus out of the target.

Of late my eyes appear to not be pulling their weight and I've been considering trying a scope.

Do lasers fall in the realm of scopes or is a third category needed for discussion?
 
There isn't versus anything. They both compliment the other. Optics are primary go to and BUIS just in case your optic goes down.

Not always, I'd say it's more of a different tools for different jobs. BUIS are just that, back ups, but I have an iron sighted carbine that spends more time with me then any of my optic bearing rifles because it is light weight and was cheap to throw together. I try to put down the expensive rifles and spend some time shooting it every range trip.

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It sure makes me appreciate all the fancy shit I have on my other guns, this one makes you really work for it.
 
Not always, I'd say it's more of a different tools for different jobs. BUIS are just that, back ups, but I have an iron sighted carbine that spends more time with me then any of my optic bearing rifles because it is light weight and was cheap to throw together. I try to put down the expensive rifles and spend some time shooting it every range trip.

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It sure makes me appreciate all the fancy shit I have on my other guns, this one makes you really work for it.

Yea but on the flip side you can also add a cheap lightweight red dot to that lightweight rifle without a weight expense and have more capability than you would with just irons.
 
I'm actually slightly faster inside of 50yds with irons than an optic for making torso hits. My fastest VTAC barricade time is with irons 20.77sec.

That said when you start stretching it out magnification and a fine crosshair go a long way and are my preference. It allows you to have clear focus on both your target and aiming device vs concentrating on your FSP with irons and blurring out the target(s). Scopes also can greatly help those with poor vision.

Something else to consider is night shooting. I run an illuminated reticle Leupold Mark4 1-5x MR/T and a WMLx light. A light by itself without any illumination is very hard to acquire a target in deep night conditions.

Plain iron sights are pretty much useless at night even with a light. If you want to run just irons on a battle rifle make sure they are Tritium front and rear.
 
I think what we need is a thread that really explains vision problems and how they relate to shooting
Irons or scopes.
I know 2 people who can't shoot much any more because even with a scope they can't see to well.

As OP mentioned there was the topic of vision challenges and scopes/red dots and such.

I will give some problems I have.
Start with Irons
My eye sight is not bad but my eyes fatigue quickly it's getting harder for me to focus on the front sight for anything more than say 10 to 15 shots. The shorter the barrel length t he harder to focus.
My day to day Rx is + 1.25 for reading and up close work at work.
Now with out any Rx notch and post sights are not fun at all. The rear notch is extremely hard to focus.
So a aperture rear sight helps tremendously, as does adding a aperture front sight or globe.
Now if I use my Rx of 1.25 to shoot irons my eyes get very fatigued and I get a pounding head ache.
So my solution at the moment is a .50 corrective lenses for shooting 200 yards and closer. Now for 600 yards I have a +.25 corrective lenses in my AR rear aperture. If I use the +.50 @ greater than 200 I get the head ache looking down range.

Now with a scope my Rx is useless as I get the headaches looking down range with Rx on.
With out my Rx I can't see the turret numbers and the crisshairs are tough to adjust well....arrgghh.

Now red dot is a different challenge I can generally get buy with out my Rx of any kind as I keep my focus down range and let the dot just get in the way. Although the dot is far from clear.
Although when I use a red dot I'm looking for Torso size "hits" not groups in the X ring.
 
Having had it done, lasik is a must for anyone who really likes shooting and has a heavy script.

I have really bad astigmatism that was costing me huge money in glasses and contacts and my eyes were 20/50 right and 30/70 left. Shooting with scopes sucked because my zero changed depending on whether I was wearing glasses or contacts. Fatigue set in quickly when shooting for any duration.

I now have 20/15 in both and it's been 4 years since I had it done. The results are staggering.
 
Makes me feel good when im hitting steel pie plates at 100yds with irons on my SKS when guys there are using scopes on their AR's and hitting 50% of the time.. I'm actually in the Market for a scope for the AK, looking at either a 1-4x26 or 1-6x24, I haven't been able to check any out yet and curious if anyone runs a scoped AK here.
 
Makes me feel good when im hitting steel pie plates at 100yds with irons on my SKS when guys there are using scopes on their AR's and hitting 50% of the time.. I'm actually in the Market for a scope for the AK, looking at either a 1-4x26 or 1-6x24, I haven't been able to check any out yet and curious if anyone runs a scoped AK here.

I ran a a Kobra red dot and a psop scope years ago , I just can't shoot a ak with optics. Just feels funny.
 
Having had it done, lasik is a must for anyone who really likes shooting and has a heavy script.

I have really bad astigmatism that was costing me huge money in glasses and contacts and my eyes were 20/50 right and 30/70 left. Shooting with scopes sucked because my zero changed depending on whether I was wearing glasses or contacts. Fatigue set in quickly when shooting for any duration.

I now have 20/15 in both and it's been 4 years since I had it done. The results are staggering.


I've read where lasic could adversely effect night vision. Were there any changes for you in that regard?
 
In the vein of "Have both, know how to use them" - There are 3 types of sights these days, not just 2.
Irons - useful at most distances out to say, 400 meters for most of us. Past that, target ID can be an issue - and if not, just go with it for the sake of discussion.

"Red Dot" type - quick acquisition of target and accurate out to about 300 meters depending on a lot of stuff.

Magnifying glass/Scope - regardless of recital, the magnification helps you see the target better and the rest is up to the shooter to understand the ballistic qualities of his or herself, the machine and the ammo as a system to deliver an accurate shot - Now enter the wind, temp, etc out past 400 meters

To echo some statements above, Both. There is no do-all magic solution. What works for One does not work for Any - it's up to the shooter to understand the difference and learn what works for them - especially as they change in ability and physical ability.

Ability - Generally, the more experienced you get the better you become - not always true. As shooters get older they get more experience and sometimes - the body fails them and the eyes go away as they age. Gray hair or not, eyes have a timeline of their own. Like it or not, there just aren't a lot of options out there for bad eyes.

Learn, test, evolve, persist.

I say persist because as you evolve, there will be change and you'll need to adapt.

Now pick up the radio and call in an airstrike - just don't fawk up the coords...
 
Good insight on the Lasik, i've been considering it for a long time now. I also have a severe astigmatism.

To the OP, you'll find most people with an M4 type rifle will have a relfex sight (aimpoint,eotech, etc..) in conjunction with irons or BUIS. My primary currently has fixed irons and an Aimpoint T1 with the irons in a lower 1/3rd cowitness. best of both worlds, and with the fixed iron sights (FSP), I know they are as durable as can be and unlikely to change zero vs some BUIS.

But a lot of it depends on the type of rifle, or pistol or shotty, As there seems to be a 21st century solution to all platforms now. For most, reflex sights are the fastest and easiest option and while a shooter still needs to know his dope tables, reflex sights will compensate somewhat for poor shooting techniques.
 
On a rifle or carbine, I treat irons as backups only. I don't know of a single scenario in which I would prefer to only have iron sights over quality optics.
 
Makes me feel good when im hitting steel pie plates at 100yds with irons on my SKS when guys there are using scopes on their AR's and hitting 50% of the time.. I'm actually in the Market for a scope for the AK, looking at either a 1-4x26 or 1-6x24, I haven't been able to check any out yet and curious if anyone runs a scoped AK here.

I've swiped the IOR from my PSL and put it on my AK, it worked out pretty good. Of course, my AK is a WASR-10, so there;s a rail there and they're compatible between the two. Yeah, it might look a little strange to some, but it worked.

I've read where lasic could adversely effect night vision. Were there any changes for you in that regard?

I had cataract surgery, not Lasik, but I noticed my eyes are now a little more light sensitive than before.

As to having backup irons if you're using optics, that's just plain good sense.

Some folks can't use irons, due to eye issues. I could always make them worked, but suffered miserably for it. Optics fixed that for me.

I'll mention that the lack of magnification affects speed. Good red dot optics give me the speed, yet are one focal plane, so no wandering zero. Good out to 200-300 meters, if the target is fair sized.
 
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