Oui cwof and letter references?

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Hello, Hopefully I am posting this in the correct location on here.
My question begins with that I have an oui with an CWOF verdict. I’ve been told this should not effect my ability to receive an unrestricted license. But my town seems like it’s require everyone to go thru hoops just to apply for an LTC. Is it required by law for them to make me write a letter stating why I need/want an unrestricted license? And to make me get 3 references write letters? Seems like a lot of work to be done for no reason at all. If it’s not required by MA state law then I should not have to do these things correct? They don’t have the ability to deny me just because they want to?... This all seems very wrong to me. Thanks for the help.
 
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milktree

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By the letter of the law, a CWOF is not a conviction, and therefore does not make you a prohibited person.

The town *can* make you go through all sorts of hoops, because they want to, even though none of those hoops are statutorily required. In most cases it's impractical to fight them on any of those hoops, it's easier and faster to just jump through them.

The cops can deny you an LTC "because they want to", more or less. There's a "suitability" clause that allows them to deny an applicant because reasons. They can look at your DUI and say, "nope, don't care if it wasn't a conviction. He got arrested and charged, that's indicative of being of poor moral character" You can appeal, and you might win, but it'll cost you a lot of money.
 

Rockrivr1

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There not supposed to asked for that information as it's not part of the LTC requirement by the state. But many towns add in these special delights just to mess with people. You can contact GOAL here in MA and see what they say. Not much you'll be able to do personally though unless you don't want to get approved.
 

VetteGirlMA

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Standard questions, was the OUI in MA and when? Is it recent or back in the 80s? If it's recent and happened in MA then you are federally prohibited person period end. You're toast. If it's not then it all depends on how much lawyer you can afford to help you get your license. Depending on where you live, but in general in MA if you want an unrestricted LTC then you better be sporting a pair of angel wings, otherwise it ain't gonna happen.
 

greencobra

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Seems like a lot of work to be done for no reason at all. If it’s not required by MA state law then I should not have to do these things correct? They don’t have the ability to deny me just because they want to?... This all seems very wrong to me. Thanks for the help.
we, my advice is don't do any of it and see what it gains you. good luck!
 

bauer

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Fully disclose the incident and submit the application. I know multiple individuals statewide with MA OUI CWOF’s who have LTC-A’s with no issue. CWOF is not a conviction. I cant speak for the requirements in Weymouth however. Good luck
 
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Len-2A Training

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MGL allows chiefs "discretion" and "suitability" in determining who gets a LTC and what restrictions the chief may want to issue. Thus, these non-statutory requirements will pass muster in a MA courtroom. However, at least one gun attorney I know stood down one chief who demanded doctors letters for applicants. He threatened a lawsuit and the chief backed down.
 

allen-1

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100%, So should I submit it without these letters and then get denied and get a lawyer? Or can a lawyer do anything before hand?

I think that once the license is denied, you've painted yourself into a corner which will be tougher to get out of. If you've got the money, I'd see a Massachusetts attorney who specializes in gun laws, hopefully specifically the permitting process.

I do NOT have experience with Massachusetts gun laws, but I had a pretty awful experience with CT laws and appealing to their firearms board.

There are a couple of attorneys on this forum, and you can get recommendations from members here.

If nothing else, I'd go in for a consult before doing the application. A simple consult shouldn't cost too much, and might help you avoid a denial.


Names that come to mind are Neil S. Tassel, (he's a member here), and Jason Guida. There are others of equal repute. Do some research.
 

whacko

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Standard questions, was the OUI in MA and when? Is it recent or back in the 80s? If it's recent and happened in MA then you are federally prohibited person period end. You're toast. If it's not then it all depends on how much lawyer you can afford to help you get your license. Depending on where you live, but in general in MA if you want an unrestricted LTC then you better be sporting a pair of angel wings, otherwise it ain't gonna happen.
He said he has a continued without a finding.....not a conviction. Therefore he has not been convicted of anything woth potential for 2 or more years in prison.

A CWOF is not a conviction. So no....its not period....end.
 

whacko

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Hello, Hopefully I am posting this in the correct location on here.
My question begins with that I have an oui with an CWOF verdict. I’ve been told this should not effect my ability to receive an unrestricted license. But my town seems like it’s require everyone to go thru hoops just to apply for an LTC. Is it required by law for them to make me write a letter stating why I need/want an unrestricted license? And to make me get 3 references write letters? Seems like a lot of work to be done for no reason at all. If it’s not required by MA state law then I should not have to do these things correct? They don’t have the ability to deny me just because they want to?... This all seems very wrong to me. Thanks for the help.
Ok where to start. 🤣

There are a shit ton of things that are not required by mass general law with respect to an ltc application. Some mass towns don't care.

So......you can exclude the letters and whatever the hell they are asking you for.....and stand your ground and thump your chest about how your in the right......then get a denial back from them and have the pleasure of getting cash up for a lawyer to get your license for you.....and also the pleasure of having to answer "yes" on documents that ask of you have ever been denied a fire arm license......forever.

Or.....you can just get the letters together like the majority of the rest of us have and probably get an approval on an ltc.

Your choice.
 

whacko

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100%, So should I submit it without these letters and then get denied and get a lawyer? Or can a lawyer do anything before hand?
Even if the lawyer ends up overturning the denial.......you still have to answer yes on forms that ask if you've ever been denied a fire arm license.

Apparently you are in no hurry for your license.
 

AHM

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... I have an oui with an CWOF verdict. ...
Are you still within the probationary period,
or has the case been dismissed?

Do your conditions of probation say anything about guns?

It occurs to me that could affect your suitability.
 

42!

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I hope the op has lots of money and has already spoken to a lawyer.
 

kerryman71

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My wife took the class through GOAL taught by Jon Green prior to applying for her LTC. He told the class when asked why they're applying for an LTC to write "I'm applying for an LTC to be able to purchase and bear firearms for protection inside and outside of my home". Pretty clear cut.

As for the three letters of reference, more of us have probably had to do it than not.
 

Len-2A Training

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Are you still within the probationary period,
or has the case been dismissed?

Do your conditions of probation say anything about guns?

It occurs to me that could affect your suitability.
A CWOF during that year is an open case and thus treated like a temporary prohibited person status.
 

Happy feet

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It,s a lot less costly to consult with a firearms attorney before hand than to pay one to put out a fire!! Attorney Neil Tassel out of Wakefield has a good reputation as do several others who can be found on the goal web sight
 

AHM

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A CWOF during that year is an open case and thus treated like a temporary prohibited person status.
[thumbsup]
I hadn't tripped over that factoid before, especially not on NES.

But when it struck me to look up the actual implementation
and saw that it was a two-phase process with a built-in timer
(rather than, say, a Sword of Damocles that hangs over a defendant's' head
for an indefinite period until/unless they petition the court to close it out...),
I began to suspect that timing could be very relevant.

I wonder if, after the close of the probationary period,
one can (and should) petition the court to issue a pro-forma comment
confirming that the probation was served without further problems.

You don't want to wave that around as "even my judge loves me"
(say, by claiming it's one of the three endorsement letters [shocked]),
but it might make a nice cherry atop the pile of documentation.
 
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Hello, Hopefully I am posting this in the correct location on here.
My question begins with that I have an oui with an CWOF verdict. I’ve been told this should not effect my ability to receive an unrestricted license. But my town seems like it’s require everyone to go thru hoops just to apply for an LTC. Is it required by law for them to make me write a letter stating why I need/want an unrestricted license? And to make me get 3 references write letters? Seems like a lot of work to be done for no reason at all. If it’s not required by MA state law then I should not have to do these things correct? They don’t have the ability to deny me just because they want to?... This all seems very wrong to me. Thanks for the help.
Semper Fi brother and welcome to the best 2 tickets in town...MA gun laws and NES!!!!😂😂.
 
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By the letter of the law, a CWOF is not a conviction, and therefore does not make you a prohibited person.

The town *can* make you go through all sorts of hoops, because they want to, even though none of those hoops are statutorily required. In most cases it's impractical to fight them on any of those hoops, it's easier and faster to just jump through them.

The cops can deny you an LTC "because they want to", more or less. There's a "suitability" clause that allows them to deny an applicant because reasons. They can look at your DUI and say, "nope, don't care if it wasn't a conviction. He got arrested and charged, that's indicative of being of poor moral character" You can appeal, and you might win, but it'll cost you a lot of money.
This
 

AHM

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Weymouth License to Carry, Firearms Packet
...​
An applicant must submit all of the following:​
...​
  • New applicants applying for a license to carry require three (3) letters of recommendation showing good character, emotional stability, no excessive drinking habits, substance abuse or violent behavior. Two of these references can be the same as the ones you listed on the application. Each letter must be on 8 ½” X 11” paper, dated and signed and must show the author’s name, address and phone number. Letters from relatives are not acceptable.
...​
License Restriction Policy​
...​
(3) The Chief’s decision to restrict the license of an individual will be based on a determination that Considerations unique to the individual show a particularized risk to public safety. This determination will be based on reliable, articulable, and credible information which shows that, relative to the general public, the applicant poses a particularized risk to public safety including, but, not limited to, a risk to the applicant himself or herself.​

(Emphasis theirs).


It's worth it for any Mass resident to read the whole page. (I haven't gone through all 351 other jurisdictions' cover letters, but) it's a real mix of straight shooting (e.g. applicants with sealed records should just list them without describing their contents - if they are disqualifying, WPD will be informed) and extra-legal requirements (e.g., live fire).

And there's an existing thread discussing the live-fire requirement, so if somebody finds that a shocker, I suggest they go discuss the issue there not here. OP has more fundamental problems than that.
 

Rob Boudrie

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He said he has a continued without a finding.....not a conviction. Therefore he has not been convicted of anything woth potential for 2 or more years in prison.

A CWOF is not a conviction. So no....its not period....end.
A CWOF is treated as if it were a conviction for two things:

1. It counts as a previous offense in sentencing for future OUI cases in MA

2. It counts as a conviction for CDL purposes (upheld by the SJC; reason is CDL regs prohibit alternative dispositions other than not responsible/not guilty that allow the pseudo-convict to avoid the consequences of an actual conviction)

I know it also impacts insurance rates, but am not sure if a CWOF results in SDIP points for a CWOF (It certainly might).

Think of CWOF as "conviction light".
 

RoterTeufel

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Standard questions, was the OUI in MA and when? Is it recent or back in the 80s? If it's recent and happened in MA then you are federally prohibited person period end. You're toast. If it's not then it all depends on how much lawyer you can afford to help you get your license. Depending on where you live, but in general in MA if you want an unrestricted LTC then you better be sporting a pair of angel wings, otherwise it ain't gonna happen.
100% Wrong
if you don't know... Don't answer. You are spreading mis-information.
 

RoterTeufel

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Hello, Hopefully I am posting this in the correct location on here.
My question begins with that I have an oui with an CWOF verdict. I’ve been told this should not effect my ability to receive an unrestricted license. But my town seems like it’s require everyone to go thru hoops just to apply for an LTC. Is it required by law for them to make me write a letter stating why I need/want an unrestricted license? And to make me get 3 references write letters? Seems like a lot of work to be done for no reason at all. If it’s not required by MA state law then I should not have to do these things correct? They don’t have the ability to deny me just because they want to?... This all seems very wrong to me. Thanks for the help.


I'll get straight to it. I've been in your shoes.
I've had my LTC A, unrestricted for years. Renewed 2x. No issues with the officers.
you DO have to tell them about the CWoF, they will find out...
If it's been less than a year, I suggest you wait.

Not something I talk about. I was young and stupid. So many people I know drink a few beers and drive, but don't realize that they might be legally intoxicated.

feel free to PM me.
 
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Robin Proctor

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If you've got the money, I'd see a Massachusetts attorney who specializes in gun laws, hopefully specifically the permitting process.

Considering how much OP is potentially going to spend on guns ammo, cleaning supplies magazines safes etc. this one is a no brainer. A good lawyer will cost you less than a S&W Shield and a thousand rounds of 9 right now. Which OP won’t have to worry about buying anyways if OP fails to play the game right.
If you have anything but a squeaky clean record I think professional guidance is worth it every time
 
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