Personal sales now under the new law

[M1911]

When the ATF inspected a dealer's book they saw and unusual number of sales to him and that raised their concern that he was in business which they shared with the local PD who pulled the mircs information.

So they are trying to manufacture a crime.

 

[Mark from ?]

When the ATF inspected a dealer's book they saw and unusual number of sales to him and that raised their concern that he was in business which they shared with the local PD who pulled the mircs information.

Got it.......I know you can't provide..but always interested in how many is "unusual" ..........I mean some guys buy a lot of guns.

 

[drgrant]

Personal transfers or FFL transfers? You can transfer as many as you want via FFL transfer, that goes in their book, and they do the transfer to the new person.

So.....If personal.......How does the ATF see a huge number of FA-10 transfers?

I'm not naive to think they don't have access to that shit database...but........really they are gonna charge someone off that POS?

Multiple handgun purchase forms. Most people get ratted out by MHPs.

 

[Mark from ?]

So they are trying to manufacture a crime.

True...but personal selling more than your allotted 4 in MA is somewhat retarded because everything is tracked.

 

[MAJoe]

Got it.......I know you can't provide..but always interested in how many is "unusual" ..........I mean some guys buy a lot of guns.

I can’t find it, but there was a story posted here where someone sold 100+ guns in a year on FA10. Don’t know if it’s the same person.

 

[M1911]

True...but personal selling more than your allotted 4 in MA is somewhat retarded because everything is tracked.

If I understand correctly, it wasn’t his client that sold more than 4 personal sales. Rather his client bought 3 guns from a person or persons who sold more than 4 personal sales. His client would have had no way to know that.

 

[PappyM3]

So they are trying to manufacture a crime.

“Sorry sir, you are exercising your right way too much. We’re going to have to take it away”

If I understand correctly, it wasn’t his client that sold more than 4 personal sales. Rather his client bought 3 guns from a person or persons who sold more than 4 personal sales. His client would have had no way to know that.

His client also sold more than 4 per year.

Not really. They suspended his license because he made a huge number of transfers that got the ATF's attention who then reported it to the local PD. I'm trying to get an AWB charge and a bunch of charges of exceeding 4 per year.

Do you mind saying if he delivered the firearms to the PD following the revocation, or did the PD come into his home and take his firearms?

 

[alan226]

I was wondering that too, which is what my guy is facing too.

You would think that an actual functional system would not allow you to process more than 4 EFA10's a year.

But would mean logic applies...

 

[MAJoe]

You would think that an actual functional system would not allow you to process more than 4 EFA10's a year.

But would mean logic applies...

It’s similar to how the new system is planned to give out serials to guns which aren’t legal to possess.

 

[nstassel]

You would think that an actual functional system would not allow you to process more than 4 EFA10's a year.

But would mean logic applies...

That was primarily why I argued the Commonwealth should not prosecute my client on these charges.

 

[drgrant]

You would think that an actual functional system would not allow you to process more than 4 EFA10's a year.

But would mean logic applies...

The problem is there are functional reasons why you might be "reporting" more than four. Remember the picker on the login screen is really just a formality the legal requirement is simply "reporting " the event. If you were at a place in arbitrary limit on the functions of the picker that would just confuse the shit out of people.

 

[drgrant]

Another happy fun ball about these laws is if you read into them there are occasions where the seller is the one obligated to file this report and then there are other occasions where the buyer or the person acquiring the gun is required to file this introduces a lot of confusion because somebody May read the law and determine that in their specific circumstance the person who sold them the firearm was obligated to report the transfer not the buyer like for example when you buy a gun from an MA dealer you typically are not obligated to report this transfer but the dealer certainly is.

 

[Garys]

What happen if a gun was bought on the old blue card system? Or any of those ever entered into the computer system?

 

[millbilly]

So if someone purchased a firearm from out of state. And never registered it in MA. Let's say it's a rifle not capable of accepting high cap mags. The offense occurs shortly after the firearm was brought into the state. So there would be a statute of limitations on it?

 

[drgrant]

So if someone purchased a firearm from out of state. And never registered it in MA. Let's say it's a rifle not capable of accepting high cap mags. The offense occurs shortly after the firearm was brought into the state. So there would be a statute of limitations on it?

Theoretically the 7 day timer starts when you bring it in, as does the 5-6 year one.

 

[Mark from ?]

What happen if a gun was bought on the old blue card system? Or any of those ever entered into the computer system?

No one really knows whats up with that. You'd have to see whats registered under your name. Supposedly they entered all that shit in, including those old mylar things as well.

Like mine, once you become a non resident...they go POOF and are no longer in state guns anymore.

 

[drgrant]

What happen if a gun was bought on the old blue card system? Or any of those ever entered into the computer system?

You're still getting charged by a shit pd. They don't care.

This isn't the only scenario where theyve proven they will just make shit up as they go along.

 

[drgrant]

No one really knows whats up with that. You'd have to see whats registered under your name. Supposedly they entered all that shit in, including those old mylar things as well.

Like mine, once you become a non resident...they go POOF and are no longer in state guns anymore.

Not true your shit still lives in the database forever but as long as you don't set foot in Massachusetts it really doesn't mean too much.

 

[KH56010]

Gee thanks bruh!

View attachment 1003923

I wasn't going to respond to this until I saw that you apparently claim to represent clients and you're actually trying to give legal advice? That's kind of terrifying. I'm not sure what you're not understanding here. You yourself cited the law. I'll quote you "(e) Whoever fails to register a firearm in violation of subsection (a), or fails to report a transaction, loss or theft in violation of subsections (b) or (c)"

"(a)(1) The department of criminal justice information services shall develop and maintain a real time electronic firearms registration system."

"(b) All firearm transactions within the commonwealth, including, but not limited to, all purchases, sales, rentals, leases, loans or other transfers shall be reported to the electronic firearms registration system."

"(c) Any loss or theft of a firearm shall be reported by the owner thereof via the electronic firearms registration system"

Let me emphasize "ELECTRONIC FIREARMS REGISTRATION SYSTEM".

(f) The executive office of public safety and security shall promulgate regulations for the implementation of this section, which shall include information required for the registration and reporting of firearms, public notice and an outreach campaign to promote awareness of this section.

Then go down 93 pages.

SECTION 157. The department of criminal justice information services shall establish the electronic firearms registration system established pursuant to section 121B of chapter 140 of the General Laws, as inserted by section 32, not later than 1 year after the effective date of this act; provided, that all firearms shall be registered in accordance with this act and not later than 1 year after said electronic firearms registration system is completed and publicly available.

(F) has not happened. The EOPSS has not promulgated regulations for the implementation of section 121B which shall include information required for the registration and reporting of firearms, public notice and an outreach campaign to promote awareness. And they can't enforce this until at least 1 year after completing the firearms registration system, which according to the law must be created this year. The EFA10 system is not a Firearm Registration System, it was a system to record "transfers". Which is why nothing ever "comes off" the list. There's an old saying "You can't unf*** that hole". The transfer happened and it was recorded. But the list never proved current ownership.

 

[Garys]

I'm not because I don't live in MA any longer. Down here, show each other your DLs, exchange money for gun and go on your way. Actually, after the first time you don't even have to exchange DLs because the law says "or known to each other." FFLs will require you to show your DL, but they don't hold on to it as they do a LTC in MA. The benefit of having a LTC here is that the FFL doesn't have to call in for a NICS check. Still have to do the 4473. Many dealers will charge less for a transfer if you have a LTC as it's less work for them.

You're still getting charged by a shit pd. They don't care.

This isn't the only scenario where theyve proven they will just make shit up as they go along.

 

[Garys]

I'm staying on this thread just to watch the upcoming show!

I wasn't going to respond to this until I saw that you apparently claim to represent clients and you're actually trying to give legal advice? That's kind of terrifying. I'm not sure what you're not understanding here. You yourself cited the law. I'll quote you "(e) Whoever fails to register a firearm in violation of subsection (a), or fails to report a transaction, loss or theft in violation of subsections (b) or (c)"

"(a)(1) The department of criminal justice information services shall develop and maintain a real time electronic firearms registration system."

"(b) All firearm transactions within the commonwealth, including, but not limited to, all purchases, sales, rentals, leases, loans or other transfers shall be reported to the electronic firearms registration system."

"(c) Any loss or theft of a firearm shall be reported by the owner thereof via the electronic firearms registration system"

Let me emphasize "ELECTRONIC FIREARMS REGISTRATION SYSTEM".

(f) The executive office of public safety and security shall promulgate regulations for the implementation of this section, which shall include information required for the registration and reporting of firearms, public notice and an outreach campaign to promote awareness of this section.

Then go down 93 pages.

SECTION 157. The department of criminal justice information services shall establish the electronic firearms registration system established pursuant to section 121B of chapter 140 of the General Laws, as inserted by section 32, not later than 1 year after the effective date of this act; provided, that all firearms shall be registered in accordance with this act and not later than 1 year after said electronic firearms registration system is completed and publicly available.

(F) has not happened. The EOPSS has not promulgated regulations for the implementation of section 121B which shall include information required for the registration and reporting of firearms, public notice and an outreach campaign to promote awareness. And they can't enforce this until at least 1 year after completing the firearms registration system, which according to the law must be created this year. The EFA10 system is not a Firearm Registration System, it was a system to record "transfers". Which is why nothing ever "comes off" the list. There's an old saying "You can't unf*** that hole". The transfer happened and it was recorded. But the list never proved current ownership.

 

[drgrant]

I'm not because I don't live in MA any longer. Down here, show each other your DLs, exchange money for gun and go on your way. Actually, after the first time you don't even have to exchange DLs because the law says "or known to each other." FFLs will require you to show your DL, but they don't hold on to it as they do a LTC in MA. The benefit of having a LTC here is that the FFL doesn't have to call in for a NICS check. Still have to do the 4473. Many dealers will charge less for a transfer if you have a LTC as it's less work for them.

You can still have ATF agents show up at your house if your name is on too many MHP forms or appears in someones logbook too many times, or an "interesting" gun trace flows through you. Usually, however, the interaction is boring and theyre not really dicks about it, as soon as they realize "hey this guys not trafficking" they disappear.

 

[nstassel]

I wasn't going to respond to this until I saw that you apparently claim to represent clients and you're actually trying to give legal advice? That's kind of terrifying. I'm not sure what you're not understanding here. You yourself cited the law. I'll quote you "(e) Whoever fails to register a firearm in violation of subsection (a), or fails to report a transaction, loss or theft in violation of subsections (b) or (c)"

"(a)(1) The department of criminal justice information services shall develop and maintain a real time electronic firearms registration system."

"(b) All firearm transactions within the commonwealth, including, but not limited to, all purchases, sales, rentals, leases, loans or other transfers shall be reported to the electronic firearms registration system."

"(c) Any loss or theft of a firearm shall be reported by the owner thereof via the electronic firearms registration system"

Let me emphasize "ELECTRONIC FIREARMS REGISTRATION SYSTEM".

(f) The executive office of public safety and security shall promulgate regulations for the implementation of this section, which shall include information required for the registration and reporting of firearms, public notice and an outreach campaign to promote awareness of this section.

Then go down 93 pages.

SECTION 157. The department of criminal justice information services shall establish the electronic firearms registration system established pursuant to section 121B of chapter 140 of the General Laws, as inserted by section 32, not later than 1 year after the effective date of this act; provided, that all firearms shall be registered in accordance with this act and not later than 1 year after said electronic firearms registration system is completed and publicly available.

(F) has not happened. The EOPSS has not promulgated regulations for the implementation of section 121B which shall include information required for the registration and reporting of firearms, public notice and an outreach campaign to promote awareness. And they can't enforce this until at least 1 year after completing the firearms registration system, which according to the law must be created this year. The EFA10 system is not a Firearm Registration System, it was a system to record "transfers". Which is why nothing ever "comes off" the list. There's an old saying "You can't unf*** that hole". The transfer happened and it was recorded. But the list never proved current ownership.

I'm not going to get into a debate, sorry.

It is a simple fact that people are charged with failing to register a transfer if a gun in their possession isn't in mircs. Whether they should be or not is immaterial. There's a whole list of reasons a gun can end up legally in one's possession without it appearing in one's efa10 list, and I explain this to prosecutors and judges and the charge goes away usually.

If any more people charged with this offense call me I'll refer them to you for criminal defense.

 

[Mark from ?]

Not true your shit still lives in the database forever but as long as you don't set foot in Massachusetts it really doesn't mean too much.

Oh for sure........meaning the guns go poof from state.... and if you sell anything......records are useless, but technically thats true with the database now if you sell/trade to an FFL out of state now.

 

[sig shooter]

When the ATF inspected a dealer's book they saw and unusual number of sales to him and that raised their concern that he was in business which they shared with the local PD who pulled the mircs information.

Jesus Christ. What PD is this? Asking so I never move into or enter that town. Wonder if they have anything better to do.

 

[nstassel]

Jesus Christ. What PD is this? Asking so I never move into or enter that town. Wonder if they have anything better to do.

I'm not going to give any personal info out but suffice it to say there were alot of private sales...triple digits. It got their attention. But the guy really had no idea he was limited. Almost like he was exercising a constitutional right or something.

 

[Mark from ?]

I'm not going to give any personal info out but suffice it to say there were alot of private sales...triple digits. It got their attention. But the guy really had no idea he was limited. Almost like ihe was exercising a constitutional right or something.

Im no statist...but triple digit selling over a short time frame is likely to catch the attention of the AFT in any state. In double regulated MA...its full retard.

Even having a C&R FFL...you don't have to read to deep to understand that the point of getting that license, is not buying and selling, and if there is intent beyond improving your collection WRT sales, .....your gonna be looking at dealing without a license.