Pisses me off...

[Admin]

As we know already the majority of CNN's readers are left. Yet a majority of them support this legislation. We also know the right leaners are in favor of this. That being said our reps in DC will still vote against this bill.

http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/23982.content.html

Do you support or oppose a bill in Congress to make all illegal aliens felons?

Support 59% 4529 votes

Oppose 41% 3161 votes

Total: 7690 votes

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say 90% of us here will support this. Please vote in both polls.

ETA: The CNN poll is on the front page right now.

 

[JonJ]

Both polls? I only saw 1.

 

[Adam_MA]

Damn Skippy!

 

[Admin]

Both polls? I only saw 1.

The one in this thread, and the one on CNN. It's on the front page right now.

 

[JonJ]

Sorry....I'll put my crack pipe down now...

 

[Pilgrim]

The term is 'illegal' aliens. Aren't they already felons? Now we have to make a law to say that a previous law is really a law?

 

[Nickle]

I tend towards yes, but, would rather have them figured as upper end misdemeanors. NY state has something in this area, IIRC. It's almost as good as a felony, lots of punishment allowable (1 yr +).

If it can't be a serious misdemeanor and severely punished, then make it a Felony, and stiff punishment.

 

[Admin]

Sorry....I'll put my crack pipe down now...

Nope, nope. It was my fault. I didnt specify.

 

[jacobtowne]

Explanation please.
Illegal aliens are already criminals in violation of U.S. laws. They have entered the country illegally, they are working here illegally, they in many cases have false identification, and they are evading payment of income taxes.
Are none of these felonies?
JT

 

[Admin]

Explanation please.
Illegal aliens are already criminals in violation of U.S. laws. They have entered the country illegally, they are working here illegally, they in many cases have false identification, and they are evading payment of income taxes.
Are none of these felonies?
JT

They are. But currently if you prosecute you are labeled a racist.

 

[Cptn5spd]

The term is 'illegal' aliens. Aren't they already felons? Now we have to make a law to say that a previous law is really a law?

I always liked how Jay Severin put it "Crim-aliens" why hell they are criminals if they are illegal
aliens.

They are. But currently if you prosecute you are labeled a racist.

I feel if you prosecute this it makes you more American.

 

[Lynne]

It's now:

Support 58%
Oppose 42%

Wow....and on CNN yet. It think it was over 34,000 votes so far, but I don't remember the numbers.

 

[Admin]

Okay I was way off.

 

[dwarven1]

Gee... no one here is opposing the law. Don't any of you need to have your lawn mowed??

Sorry... couldn't resist that one.

 

[Adam_MA]

Gee... no one here is opposing the law. Don't any of you need to have your lawn mowed??

Sorry... couldn't resist that one.

hehehe

 

[Coyote33]

Explanation please.
Illegal aliens are already criminals in violation of U.S. laws. They have entered the country illegally, they are working here illegally, they in many cases have false identification, and they are evading payment of income taxes.
Are none of these felonies?
JT

"Double Secret Probation"



P.S.
Support 57% 73497 votes
Oppose 43% 54714 votes

 

[JonJ]

"Double Secret Probation"



P.S.
Support 57% 73497 votes
Oppose 43% 54714 votes

Ah but how would you know that it was double secret probation if it's a secret?

 

[SnakeEye]

Why is it that almost every ATM, Kiosk and Phone answering service is in spanish..
but state and federal income tax forms are only distributed in english.

The security implication of this issue are far too important to allow this to become a feelgood issue..

how many of us can tell a terrorist of middle eastern decent from a south american illegal immigrant??

its ignorant and racist...i grant you. but that describes a good chunk of americans, and on any given day admittedly probobly myself even..

 

[Admin]

Who's the smart ass?

 

[Cross-X]

Felons, just due to illegal status?

Seems a little harsh, Derek.

 

[SiameseRat]

Frankly, I have to say that while I support a bill that cracks down on illegal immigrants, I think that we have to figure which is the bigger burden:

Do we let them continue to work but not pay income taxes or do we convict them as felons and then toss them in already overcrowded prisons and jails?

Or are we just going to toss them back over the border to be corralled again later? Or do they get convicted of a felony and then get deported?

Sorry, didn't read the article in depth enough to find the answer myself if it's in there.

 

[mark056]

The bill has one good provision: it will punish employers with both fines and jail time if they hire illegal aliens. I have always maintained that there would be no supply (of illegals) if there wasn't a demand (employers who want workers on the cheap).

The real problem that I see, however, is enforcement. Do we actually have the adequate number of law enforcement personnel to investigate and apprehend these felons ? Once they are brought before the court, can the system provide a speedy trial ? When convicted, are there adequate facilites available to incarcerate them ? Have we only created another unenforceable law ?

I have a pretty good idea of the priorities that the agency I work for has, and frankly arresting illegal aliens isn't one of them. There is too much other stuff out there of a higher magnitude.

Next week, there is going to be a guest worker bill introduced. Naturally the unions oppose it saying that it hurts their members and will only result in the exploitation of illegal workers (like they already aren't being exploited ?). If properly run, this could be an answer, not a perfect one. One thing that really bothers me about that bill, is that I believe that there is a provision which would allow the guest worker families in too. This is a bad thing because it encourages de facto immigration. Keep the families back in the old country so the guest worker is more likely to return.

Anyway that's my two pesos.

Mark

 

[Admin]

Felons, just due to illegal status?

Seems a little harsh, Derek.

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.

and an amendment to the Federal Law

1990—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 101–649, § 543(b)(2), inserted “or attempts to enter” after “(1) enters” and “attempts to enter or” after “or (3)”, and substituted “shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined not more than $2,000 (or, if greater, the amount provided under title 18) or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years” for “shall, for the first commission of any such offenses, be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof be punished by imprisonment for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than $500, or by both, and for a subsequent commission of any such offenses shall be guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than two years, or by a fine of not more than $1,000”.


Basically they are just stiffening the current law. I have zero problems with that.

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/isacrime.html

Apologists for illegal immigration like to paint it as a victimless crime. But in fact, illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population--the poor, minorities, and children.

Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not cover the cost of services received by them. We cannot provide high quality education, health care, and retirement security for our own people if we continue to bring in endless numbers of poor, unskilled immigrants.

http://www.theamericanresistance.com/articles/art2004winter.html

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater...

The High Cost of Cheap Labor

As long as Special Order 40 is around we are going to continue to have serious problems with ILLEGALS.

 

[SnakeEye]

Who's the smart ass?

mind explaining that one for me..

 

[Admin]

mind explaining that one for me...im still trying to figure out if thats you or me..

It was 100% until I posted "I was way off" then the perfect streak ended.

 

[Coyote33]

Why is it that almost every ATM, Kiosk and Phone answering service is in spanish..
but state and federal income tax forms are only distributed in english.

The security implication of this issue are far too important to allow this to become a feelgood issue..

how many of us can tell a terrorist of middle eastern decent from a south american illegal immigrant??
...
its ignorant and racist...i grant you. but that describes a good chunk of americans, and on any given day admittedly probobly myself even..

Let alone that our enemies (Chinese, Koreans, Arabs, ...) are courting the South Americans against us. Pretty soon it will get bad before good.

 

[Coyote33]

New poll there:

Should illegal immigrants be required to go home before becoming eligible for U.S. citizenship?

 

[Weerd Beard]

Somebody likened it to Pre Civil War America, since we now have an entire caste of workers that a large portion of the country thinks shouldn't be here, and some people who may oppose it let it slide because ti change would require a complete change of the work force.

These workers don't get paied proper saleries, don't recive benefits, and may not recive any of the legal help that the rest of us will recive (if your Illigal workman cuts his thumb off you can just deny he ever worked for you rather than pay workman's comp).

The only significant difference between the illigal workers and the Slaves in the US is the slaves were brought here against thier will....the illigal workers came here on thier own volition because even this lousy life is better than what they had.

The ones that actully work and have ambition would be MUCH better off as a LEGAL worker....and the ones that don't work and live off of loopholes in our system...well they're lower than a Snake's bellybutton, and I don't care WHERE you send them.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[Coyote33]

...These workers don't get paied proper saleries, don't recive benefits, and may not recive any of the legal help that the rest of us will recive (if your Illigal workman cuts his thumb off you can just deny he ever worked for you rather than pay workman's comp)....

Of course, the blackmail could work both ways...

 

[Weerd Beard]

Of course, the blackmail could work both ways...

honestly, at least in the People's Republic, I don't see either side having much leverage.

Too many people would LOVE giving an illigal state money, and nobody cares if somebody's workstaff has all thier papers in order.

Arrr

-Weer'd Beard