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piston kits

JohnMarston

JohnMarston

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If one was interested in a piston conversion kit for a AR, which would you use? and why!

What is the advantage of the piston drive verses the DI set up? I am relatively new to AR's and am trying to weigh my options for goodies. Im a function over form kind of guy.


Dom
 
Piston- they tend to run cleaner, no gases and crap being blown back, you may feel a bit more recoil, but were only talking a 5.56 round, added cost.
DI System- dirtier, keep your gun wet, it's a proven system and just keep shooting.
There is no difference in accuracy, however, with a DI system and perceived higher recoil, one may have a few milliseconds delay in second shot or more acquisition, not something that should concern the average range shooter.
I heard from someone once that the piston system is a great solution to a non existent problem.
 
I just put an ar together and went with the Adams Arms piston kit. Gun runs like a top and receiver, bolt, carrier, trigger area all stay CLEAN. I got both DI and piston and greatly prefer the piston setup. Other then staying cleaner I don't see any other really big difference unless clean means better. It does to me. Reliability wise they both run. So to sum it up, in my view, piston runs clean. That's the only difference I see.
 
Yeah, I would never run a piston system dry. On a hot day, I seized 2 different systems. An AA and a LMT BCG after multiple mag dumps. While other people with DI systems ran fineYMMV.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
 
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i like cleanliness! less cleaning means more fun, or added reliability should i need to use it in an emergency.

I have heard great things about the Adams kit, as well as a company called Osprey. any thoughts boys?

Dom

- - - Updated - - -

rkwjunior said:
UH OH!!!!! Here we go!!![popcorn]

This one will be going full retard very soon!
Click to expand...

it only goes full retard when idiots post stupid shit. got stupid shit on the brain? stay out. im looking for information and personal experiances.

Dom
 
bullseye said:
Piston- they tend to run cleaner, no gases and crap being blown back, you may feel a bit more recoil, but were only talking a 5.56 round, added cost.
DI System- dirtier, keep your gun wet, it's a proven system and just keep shooting.
There is no difference in accuracy, however, with a DI system and perceived higher recoil, one may have a few milliseconds delay in second shot or more acquisition, not something that should concern the average range shooter.
I heard from someone once that the piston system is a great solution to a non existent problem.
Click to expand...

I have an off-the-shelf Stag Model 8, piston driven. My experience is that it does stay very clean but you still have to keep it wet. Had a few early stovepipes until I got a lot more generous with the lube. No problems since.
 
Between the LMT and AA, if I were too do it again I would go AA. Both ran the same, but AA CS was more responsive with getting back to me when I contacted them. The LMT ended going back and they told me to use a little lube on the BCG. But it took about 5 weeks to get the final diagnosis. AA took less than a week and that included them sending a new operating rod.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
 
I got a POF USA 415 piston gun and cleaning and cost aside, everybody who shoots it can't believe the smoothness of the gun. Little recoil, quick follow up shots, it just runs real smooth with no spring noises in the stock, and clean up is a breeze.
 
Armalite AR-18/180: The original piston AR

This rifle was a stamped receiver competitor for the M-16 back in the day.
http://www.ar-180.com/
http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/armalite-ar-1-e.html
see also
http://www.gunblast.com/ArmaLite-AR180.htm

You can occasionally find these on Gunbroker for $500-700 (I have two). Takes standard M16/AR-16 mags and parts are available from Armalite:
http://www.armalite.com/Categories.aspx?Category=835f82b8-2fae-4d93-8289-2dcd20122bde
There are rumors of them beginning production again.

And there are tacticool accessories if you're into that sort of thing
http://www.gunblast.com/StormWerkz.htm

Easy to clean and fun to shoot.
 
THESAW249 said:
well if the difference is the cleanliness of action etc it matters to me. more cleanly = more reliability.
Click to expand...
False.

Cleanliness = less mess to clean up...

What I have found going through 10's of thousands of rounds is that the mess in the AR receiver has near if not zero impact on reliability by itself.

What matters is what you do between uses... (how often you drop a few drops of lube on the BCG through the ejection port as a far greater impact on reliability than how clean it is)

If you put it away dirty, when you take it out again, you are going to find the gunk congealed and a resultant reduction in reliably from 0 to something as a result. I have gone many months without cleaning and through many thousands of rounds without issue.

What I very rarely do is run it again with congealed gunk AND no new lubrication. I do run it with congealed junk. Running 1000+ rounds through a previously clean gun in a day and putting it away, I would have no doubt it would work when I pulled it out the next time with no new lube. Repeat that a few times and it will start to gum up without new lube.

The reality of piston guns is that crap and corrosion can/will build up in their mechanism too which also requires cleaning and/or lubrication. It may require cleaning less often and that cleaning may or may not be easier deepening on the system.

Reliability, however, isn't really the issue. The real difference is how messy your hands get cleaning the gun.
 
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A others have mentioned, various piston systems show an issue of overheating and seizing under very heavy use in a single session. The dirt in a DI system won't do this in any decent quality gun. Again, the issue is the gunk congealing between uses, not heat or gunk in a single session of shooting.
 
Just for fun I went a few thousand rounds without cleaning my AR... the only reliability issues I had were when I tried running reloads that I hadn't removed the dry case lube from, they gunked up the chamber.

Mike
 
THESAW249 said:
i like cleanliness! less cleaning means more fun, or added reliability should i need to use it in an emergency.
Click to expand...

Consider the standardized parts on a DI AR15, vs proprietary parts on the many different variations of piston kits. In a SHTF scenario, it will be easier to repair or replace parts if you have a DI gun.

As far as the cleanliness goes, it really depends on what ammo you shoot. For example, shooting 4-500 rounds federal XM193 in an afternoon will make my AR dirty, but no where near the point of causing problems. The same number of rounds of Remington UMC, Wolf or Tula will make a filthy mess.

One more point if its your first AR, get a standard DI gun. Buy lots of mags and ammo, learn how it works and shoot a few thousand rounds through it.
 
Dom, honestly it is a solution to a non-existent problem. As others have said the cleanliness will have little or no impact on the reliability of the gun. Lube is the key factor, and that is required for either system. I think if I wanted a piston AR, I would buy one that was designed from the ground up to be a piston gun as opposed to any of the conversion kits. Just because the soot doesn't end up in your bolt area doesn't mean you don't have to clean it, all it means is that the soot ends up someplace else that still needs to be cleaned, and likely requires more disassembly to get to. Just get an AK, then you can have a piston gun too.[wink]
 
I don't know much about piston systems, but I thought they added at least a little bit of weight to the rifle. Can someone comment on whether this is true or not?
 
So this may be blasphemy, but I have 6 rifles and only 2 of them are DI. One YHM and one Daewoo K1A1 Paratrooper. I have two piston guns in 7.62 and two in 5.56. I have run them all through many, many rounds with no failure to feed of any kind. The LWRC REPR is the easiest to deal with because of the coating on the BCG. I am likely to get the BCG on all of my rifles Nickel Boron/NP3 coated because it makes the issue of wet or dry moot. I happen to like piston guns. Having done a few classes up at Sig Academy I have asked every instructor I spoke to what their preference was and all of them said for a civilian, they'd go with a piston rifle. This wasn't a Sig marketing line either, remember that Sig offers DI rifles. I like the idea of a piston rifle quite a bit. I know that DI guns work, I won't ever say anything different. My piston rifles are also some of the finest rifles made, I consider finding parts to be a first world problem I am happy to deal with. But if the SHTF I am happy to know that I have LWRC, Steyr Aug, Sig Sauer and HK in my gun safe. With two in every caliber I want, I have plenty of backup I guess. I cannot recommend some kind of a Nickel Boron or NP3 type treatment enough though. I have pistols with NP3 and my LWRC has the Nickel Boron coating. All of them are about 3 thousand times easier to clean than the non coated stuff I have. I believe the FailZero BCG's have a coating and that it is a big part of their selling point. Unless I buy a complete upper for my SBR, I'll likely buy a FailZero BCG for that very reason. My .02 please don't flame me.
 
No flaming required...

Regarding coatings... I treat the moving parts of my gun as disposable. I don't want anything special, I want reliable, but easily replaced parts that I can get anywhere from anyone who has the best balance of value/cost. I'm willing to pay a bit more for reliable, in-spec parts that "just work," but if it doesn't change the functional life of the part, I don't see the value.

When it comes to coatings, I just haven't seen that they are easier to clean given what I know I NEED to do WRT cleaning.

I wipe my BCG down with a paper towel, I run a brush over the nooks and crannies, then re-lube and done.

I think the difference is that that I nether expect, nor need it to look like it has never been fired once "cleaned." Until or unless it alters function, I don't care about a little carbon caked on the back of the bolt - "it just doesn't mater" - Bluto
 
IMO unless your an AR guru then you will not notice a big difference. Best difference I have noticed is piston runs cooler, cleaner, takes 10 mins to clean and you can shoot all the cheap ammo you want
 
I don't think the piston retrofit kits (Adams Arms.etc etc) are as well refined as the piston rifles made complete from some of the manufacturers. From the reading i've done about these "kits" they suffer from many of the ailements that pistons are known for having. Those big manufacturers like (LWRC. POF etc. etc.)have worked out all the kinks.
 

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