Please be true. Loophole logic in CA on another level 😂

[Atlantis]

View: https://twitter.com/softminus/status/1582551742491029504?s=46&t=Ng5pzzqWd0KxXBWw2lDoiw


“ this latest attempt at artfully "complying" with CA gun laws is sending my sides into orbit -- law defines a "fixed magazine" as "cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action" but they don't specify that it has to be what actually feeds ammo into the gun

so these dipshits (term used with affection) take a tiny 5 round .22lr magazine, insert it into the grip of the gun, make a device that prevents its removal without disassembling the gun and wham, there you go, you have a less-than-10-round magazine, fixed to the gun.

(the .22lr magazine is immaterial to the function of the gun. it does not interface with any of the gun's machinery)“

 

[cockpitbob]

I wouldn't want to be the court test case, but their interpretation of the statute's words seems sound.

 

[LittleCalm]

But you still also have the standard detachable mag? I don’t get it.

 

[bfm]

But you still also have the standard detachable mag? I don’t get it.

Just says you have to have A Fixed Magazine, doesn't say you can't ALSO have a removable one as well.

As mentioned, I would not want to be the test case.

 

[LakeTrout]

But you still also have the standard detachable mag? I don’t get it.

Yes. Exactly. Seems to be in compliance with the law.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Just says you have to have A Fixed Magazine, doesn't say you can't ALSO have a removable one as well.

As mentioned, I would not want to be the test case.

Do we have a link to the text?

Obviously, our law is different...here, it hinges on having a detachable magazine.

 

[bfm]

Do we have a link to the text?

Obviously, our law is different...here, it hinges on having a detachable magazine.

1. What is considered an “Other” assault weapon under California law?
   Pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (c), paragraph (1), effective September 1, 2020, an “Other” assault weapon is defined in Penal Code section 30515, subdivision (a), paragraphs (9), (10), or (11), as:
   1. A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but that has any one of the following:
      • A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
      • A thumbhole stock.
      • A folding or telescoping stock.
      • A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
      • A flash suppressor.
      • A forward pistol grip.
      • A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
      • A second handgrip.
      • A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
      • The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
   2. A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
   3. A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
      For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.

From CA AG site.

Frequently Asked Questions

Assault Weapons and .50 BMG Quick Links to Topics General FAQs “Other” Assault Weapons Military Assault Weapons Bullet Button Assault Weapons General FAQs What is considered an assault weapon under California law? What are AK and AR-15 series weapons? What is considered a .50 BMG rifle...

oag.ca.gov

 

[tuna]

If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid.

 

[Mesatchornug]

1. What is considered an “Other” assault weapon under California law?
   Pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (c), paragraph (1), effective September 1, 2020, an “Other” assault weapon is defined in Penal Code section 30515, subdivision (a), paragraphs (9), (10), or (11), as:
   1. A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but that has any one of the following:
      • A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
      • A thumbhole stock.
      • A folding or telescoping stock.
      • A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
      • A flash suppressor.
      • A forward pistol grip.
      • A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
      • A second handgrip.
      • A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
      • The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
   2. A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
   3. A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
      For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.

From CA AG site.

Frequently Asked Questions

Assault Weapons and .50 BMG Quick Links to Topics General FAQs “Other” Assault Weapons Military Assault Weapons Bullet Button Assault Weapons General FAQs What is considered an assault weapon under California law? What are AK and AR-15 series weapons? What is considered a .50 BMG rifle...

oag.ca.gov

Gotcha. So this might apply for "Others." Cute.

 

[bfm]

Gotcha. So this might apply for "Others." Cute.

Yeah, there is a lot to the CA rules and not living there and having no intention of living there, I am probably not the best person to answer questions on it. Parts of it get very circular in their logic and make the MA AG stuff look simple to understand.

1. What is considered an assault weapon under California law?
   There are three categories of assault weapons under California law:
   • Category One: Firearms specified on the original Roberti-Roos assault weapons list. (Pen. Code, § 30510, subds. (a),(b), and (c).)
   • Category Two: Firearms specified on the AK and AR-15 series weapons, pdf. (Pen. Code, § 30510, subds. (e) and (f).)
   • Category Three: Firearms defined as assault weapons based on specific generic characteristics, often called “SB 23 assault weapons.” (Pen. Code, § 30515.)
     
2. What are AK and AR-15 series weapons?
   These assault weapons are listed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) in the California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5499.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Yeah, there is a lot to the CA rules and not living there and having no intention of living there, I am probably not the best person to answer questions on it. Parts of it get very circular in their logic and make the MA AG stuff look simple to understand.

1. What is considered an assault weapon under California law?
   There are three categories of assault weapons under California law:
   • Category One: Firearms specified on the original Roberti-Roos assault weapons list. (Pen. Code, § 30510, subds. (a),(b), and (c).)
   • Category Two: Firearms specified on the AK and AR-15 series weapons, pdf. (Pen. Code, § 30510, subds. (e) and (f).)
   • Category Three: Firearms defined as assault weapons based on specific generic characteristics, often called “SB 23 assault weapons.” (Pen. Code, § 30515.)
2. What are AK and AR-15 series weapons?
   These assault weapons are listed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) in the California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5499.

Yeah, now that I'm at my desk, I took your info and looked at the text of the law, on justia, as well. It's...an interesting space.

 

[bfm]

Yeah, now that I'm at my desk, I took your info and looked at the text of the law, on justia, as well. It's...an interesting space.

The more you read, the worse it gets for trying to make sense out of it. From a different CA AG page. And this may be the "more" correct page for the supposed loophole, but it does mention having a detachable mag so maybe not..

Effective January 1, 2000, Senate Bill 23, Statutes of 1999, establishes new criteria for defining assault weapons based on generic characteristics. This bill allows and requires persons who own/possess firearms that fall under the new "assault weapon" definition to register those firearms with the Department of Justice during the one-year period between January 1, 2000 and December 31, 2000. Effective January 1, 2000, this bill adds Penal Code Section 12276.1 to the Penal Code as follows.

• 12276.1(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
  1. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
     1. A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
     2. A thumbhole stock.
     3. A folding or telescoping stock.
     4. A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
     5. A flash suppressor.
     6. A forward pistol grip.
  2. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
  3. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

 

[Mesatchornug]

The more you read, the worse it gets for trying to make sense out of it. From a different CA AG page. And this may be the "more" correct page for the supposed loophole, but it does mention having a detachable mag so maybe not..

Effective January 1, 2000, Senate Bill 23, Statutes of 1999, establishes new criteria for defining assault weapons based on generic characteristics. This bill allows and requires persons who own/possess firearms that fall under the new "assault weapon" definition to register those firearms with the Department of Justice during the one-year period between January 1, 2000 and December 31, 2000. Effective January 1, 2000, this bill adds Penal Code Section 12276.1 to the Penal Code as follows.

• 12276.1(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
  1. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
     1. A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
     2. A thumbhole stock.
     3. A folding or telescoping stock.
     4. A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
     5. A flash suppressor.
     6. A forward pistol grip.
  2. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
  3. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

I don't think that one would support the loophole - as long as it has a detachable magazine, a rifle will fall in Paragraph 1...

Here's the 2020 (most recent?) version of the law: 2020 California Code :: Penal Code - PEN :: PART 6 - CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS :: TITLE 4 - FIREARMS :: DIVISION 10 - SPECIAL RULES RELATING TO PARTICULAR TYPES OF FIREARMS OR FIREARM EQUIPMENT :: CHAPTER 2 - Assault Weapons and .50 BMG Rifles :: ARTICLE 1 - General Provisions :: Section 30515.

(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:​

(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.​

(B) A thumbhole stockz​

(C) A folding or telescoping stock.​

(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.​

(E) A flash suppressor.​

(F) A forward pistol grip.​

(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.​

(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.​

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:​

(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.​

(B) A second handgrip.​

(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.​

(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.​

(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.​

(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:​

(A) A folding or telescoping stock.​

(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.​

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that does not have a fixed magazine.​

(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.​

(9) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but that has any one of the following:​

(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.​

(B) A thumbhole stock.​

(C) A folding or telescoping stock.​

(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.​

(E) A flash suppressor.​

(F) A forward pistol grip.​

(G) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.​

(H) A second handgrip.​

(I) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.​

(J) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.​

(10) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.​

(11) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.​

(b) For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.
(c) The Legislature finds a significant public purpose in exempting from the definition of “assault weapon” pistols that are designed expressly for use in Olympic target shooting events. Therefore, those pistols that are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee and by USA Shooting, the national governing body for international shooting competition in the United States, and that were used for Olympic target shooting purposes as of January 1, 2001, and that would otherwise fall within the definition of “assault weapon” pursuant to this section are exempt, as provided in subdivision (d).
(d) “Assault weapon” does not include either of the following:

(1) Any antique firearm.​

(2) Any of the following pistols, because they are consistent with the significant public purpose expressed in subdivision (c):​

​

(3) The Department of Justice shall create a program that is consistent with the purposes stated in subdivision (c) to exempt new models of competitive pistols that would otherwise fall within the definition of “assault weapon” pursuant to this section from being classified as an assault weapon. The exempt competitive pistols may be based on recommendations by USA Shooting consistent with the regulations contained in the USA Shooting Official Rules or may be based on the recommendation or rules of any other organization that the department deems relevant.​

(e) The provisions of this section are severable. If any provision of this section or its application is held invalid, that invalidity shall not affect other provisions or applications that can be given effect without the invalid provision or application.


(Amended by Stats. 2020, Ch. 29, Sec. 38. (SB 118) Effective August 6, 2020.)

 

[42!]

the law as posted here

• The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

So no, this BS won't pass. You can have all the fixed mags you want but if you also have a detachable outside the grip its a no go.

 

[Mesatchornug]

the law as posted here

So no, this BS won't pass. You can have all the fixed mags you want but if you also have a detachable outside the grip its a no go.

that's a sub-clause of [bold mine]: "A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but that has any one of the following"

If it does have a fixed magazine, it seems to fall out of that category and into 2: "A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds."

The question then quickly becomes whether that "capacity" at the end refers to the fixed magazine or the firearm...

 

[42!]

I wouldn’t want to be the test case with BS. Sounds like a great way to spend some time in jail.

But I’ll play.
How does the law define magazine? Link please.

 

[42!]

It fails. On 5 too
It has a 10 round fixed AND capacity to accept more

 

[enbloc]

 

[CATI]

the law as posted here

So no, this BS won't pass. You can have all the fixed mags you want but if you also have a detachable outside the grip its a no go.

A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but that has any one of the following:

It has a fixed magazine so it is excluded from that list below that statement
Going by the text it is legal

 

[Broc]

But you still also have the standard detachable mag? I don’t get it.

Thanks for posting that. I thought the same, then left without posting.

 

[bfm]

It fails. On 5 too
It has a 10 round fixed AND capacity to accept more

"that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds."

Reads like the fixed magazine has to accept more than 10 rounds.

Again, I would not be a test case, but the reading, to the letter, makes some sense.