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Please Explain Grain Count?

J

JD401

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HI folks, this is my very first post, so please bear with me! I don't see a "beginner's" thread/section here so also please be patient with a new shooter... well, new-ish... [wave]

My question has to do with all of the different "grain" counts I see listed for ammo, specifically in my case 9MM. Just how much difference does this number make? Obviously a higher number = "more bang". But do I need to consider that extra kick and if a certain gun can handle it? Or can any modern handgun handle any commercially sold round? The manual for my LC9s says it can handle +P but it isn't recommended for long term use. Something tells me that type of round is WAY more than I would ever need...

Anyhoo, I haven't been able to find an answer here for this simple (to all of you) question, so here I am asking.

JD
 
1 gram = 15.4324 gains

A higher number means heavier bullet. Not necessarily more power. Heavier bullets keep trajectory better after hitting an intermediate. Lighter bullets tend to move faster. Light and fast or slow and heavy, both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Also, 4 year old account and just posting now? That is some serious lurk.
 
First: "grain" is a unit of weight.

1 grain (gr) = 1/7000 of a lb. Grains are small.

A heavier bullet *probably* has "more punch", but not necessarily.

The total energy delivered to the target is related to both the mass of the bullet, and its velocity.

light bullets tend to move a lot faster than heavy ones. This is because the pressure the chamber can withstand is limited, and a big heavy bullet takes more pressure to get moving than a light one.

Also, light fast bullets *feel* different than a slow, heavy bullet of the same energy. Fast light bullets tend to feel "snappier" than heavy slow ones. So, a 1,200 fps 115gr bullet will feel like it's got more "kick" than a 147gr at 900 fps. (energy is related to the square of velocity)

As a new shooter I advise this:

Get whatever you can, and shoot a lot. A LOT.

At some point you'll feel what "snappy" means, or notice that your gun likes brand X better, or that it never functions right with bullets that weigh less than Y.
 
grain also effects recoil, a 115 grain has less recoil than a 147

so if you have a gun that needs a lot of grip control, say a Glock that needs a firm hand so it does not "limp wrist" and not cycle properly, you want to make sure you choose a weight that you can shoot and not have a problem

The best bullet is the one you shoot that does not over pressurize chamber (hot loads) , shoots reliably without jams or FTE, and that gets you on target. 3 well placed shots beat 1 hit and 2 fly aways every day of the week. Remember that when you get into +P loads.
 
JD401 said:
HI folks, this is my very first post, so please bear with me! I don't see a "beginner's" thread/section here so also please be patient with a new shooter... well, new-ish... [wave]

My question has to do with all of the different "grain" counts I see listed for ammo, specifically in my case 9MM. -
Just how much difference does this number make? Obviously a higher number = "more bang".
But do I need to consider that extra kick and if a certain gun can handle it?
Or can any modern handgun handle any commercially sold round?
The manual for my LC9s says it can handle +P but it isn't recommended for long term use.
Something tells me that type of round is WAY more than I would ever need...

Anyhoo, I haven't been able to find an answer here for this simple (to all of you) question, so here I am asking.

JD
Click to expand...

Did some rearranging-

Grain weight refers to actual bullet/ projectile weight as explained above, which directly relates to size.

Typically, the heavier the projectile, the less felt recoil

Yes, you need to consider it. A full size steel framed handgun will produce less noticable kick, or recoil than a 3" polymer compact.

Yes, any modern handgun can handle and commercially sold round.

The manual also doesn't tell you it will try to jump out of your hand with +P

There is no such thing as WAY MORE. There is only NOT ENOUGH.
 
JD401 said:
HI folks, this is my very first post, so please bear with me! I don't see a "beginner's" thread/section here so also please be patient with a new shooter... well, new-ish... [wave]

My question has to do with all of the different "grain" counts I see listed for ammo, specifically in my case 9MM. Just how much difference does this number make? Obviously a higher number = "more bang". But do I need to consider that extra kick and if a certain gun can handle it? Or can any modern handgun handle any commercially sold round? The manual for my LC9s says it can handle +P but it isn't recommended for long term use. Something tells me that type of round is WAY more than I would ever need...

Anyhoo, I haven't been able to find an answer here for this simple (to all of you) question, so here I am asking.

JD
Click to expand...
Modern guns will handle any 9mm weight, from 115 to 165 grains.

What you need to be careful with are +P rounds in guns that are not designed to handle the pressure.
 
These guys covered it, but I'll just put in there that with more experience, you'll find that the gun itself matters more than the round as far as perceived kick and snappiness. Subcompacts will snap a lot more than compacts or full frame, as one would assume. But without a frame of reference (ie. starting off with just the one small gun), you'll not even really know what this means until you pick up a larger one. I started with a BG380 and Kahr P9, so I didn't even know what snappy was until I picked up a larger pistol and then went back.

But we're just talking about 9mm here, so it is not like even a micro compact will be uncontrollable. Just that the larger the pistol, generally the nicer it is to shoot. I prefer compact as my base carry now unless I'm in real summer clothing or work clothes that might necessitate a subcompact.

Lastly, practically any 9mm pistol will shoot any standard commercial grain size (155, 124, 147, and slight variants). You'll find some designs might prefer a specific gain for accuracy, or that some designs might not like things like flat nose rounds, but that's something you have to figure out on a gun by gun basis. The only real safety note is with +p and +p+ rounds, which you should confirm with the user manual.
 
whatluck said:
1 gram = 15.4324 gains

A higher number means heavier bullet. Not necessarily more power. Heavier bullets keep trajectory better after hitting an intermediate. Lighter bullets tend to move faster. Light and fast or slow and heavy, both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Also, 4 year old account and just posting now? That is some serious lurk.
Click to expand...
hes not alone, my buddy has been on here for years , never posts
 
appraiser said:
grain also effects recoil, a 115 grain has less recoil than a 147
Click to expand...

IMO, that often isnt the case at all. Depends on the caliber, and how its loaded, obviously, but if I gave you a box of Blazer 115 brass and a box of Blazer 147, and a decent sized 9mm handgun, most people are going to say the 115 has more recoil. Bullet weight affects the charge used as well as the recoil impulse created, etc. Most people making mouse fart loads use 147s on purpose because they can reach minor PF and get themselves the least amount of felt recoil possible.

Also going to bring up the dreaded .40 S&W.... 9 out of 10 times, 155s or 165s will always snap harder than 180s do, because 180s are usually crippled so the gun doesn't
blow up.
 
Refer to owners manual for ammo usuage.
As far as bullet weight. Each weight has its end use reasons. For now buy what is safe your firearm and keep track of what shoots well, feels good/bad and functions best.
 
JD401 said:
HI folks, this is my very first post, so please bear with me! I don't see a "beginner's" thread/section here so also please be patient with a new shooter... well, new-ish... [wave]

My question has to do with all of the different "grain" counts I see listed for ammo, specifically in my case 9MM. Just how much difference does this number make? Obviously a higher number = "more bang". But do I need to consider that extra kick and if a certain gun can handle it? Or can any modern handgun handle any commercially sold round? The manual for my LC9s says it can handle +P but it isn't recommended for long term use. Something tells me that type of round is WAY more than I would ever need...

Anyhoo, I haven't been able to find an answer here for this simple (to all of you) question, so here I am asking.

JD
Click to expand...
Ruger lc9s is my daily ccw, it a cheap gun that not made to shoot no more than 5000 rounds(according to my research on the web lol) ,most people who shoot more than that will get a big combat hand gun like glock 19
,so do not worry about your gun durability when shooting a few +p rounds, it pointless.if u afraid +p ammo hurt your gun then send it to me,and ill give u some regular ball ammo.just that you gotta watch out for ftf when using hollowpoint ammo,normally i will load 6 rounds hollowpoint and the 7th round on top of the mag is ball ammo.stupid gun will jam on me if i load a whole mag with hornady crit defense hollowpoint ammo, and the 9 & 10 rounds mags are the worst offender,so stay away from them.and get a gunsmith to polish your lc9s feedram.
 
A friend got into trouble a couple of decades ago when he was asked to define "grain" in a vocabulary unit in middle school. He kept insisting his definition of 1/7000th of a lb was correct. I believe he was already reloading by then.
 
TrashcanDan said:
Did some rearranging-

On a box of ammo, the "Grains" refers to the bullet/ projectile weight as explained above, and which directly relates to size.
The manual also doesn't tell you it will try to jump out of your hand with +P
Click to expand...
I think TC Dan answered the underlying question "On the Box of ammo, the 'Grains' refers to the bullet weight and NOT the amount of Gun Powder (Propellant) in each round.


To get the ammo you want you have several data points available to you:
Basic Type or Size: e.g. 9mm Luger, .40 S&W, .357 Magnum, etc
Bullet Weight: 115 grain vs 124 grain vs 165 grain
Bullet Type: Full Metal Jacket/Ball, Jacketed Hollow Point (JHP) and several other abbreviations (e.g. FMJBT)
Pressure: Nothing = Normal or Std, +P: is More or Faster burning Powder, +P+: Even more than +P
Muzzle Velocity: a number in Ft/Sec or M/Sec (A function of bullet wt, powder type & amount or pressures, and barrel length)

But grains of power and type of powder isn't advertised 'on the box' <LOL - someone will probably jump in now to tell me i haven't read the fine print... 🤣 >

While I hate to admit it now, I too had the same lack of understanding about reading the ammo box when becoming more serious about the sport. And the OP (JD401) made an interesting point maybe we should make a sticky with some basic levels of information, abbreviations, etc to help new folks. Sort of a NES Public Service.
 
Engineer said:
But grains of power and type of powder isn't advertised 'on the box' <LOL - someone will probably jump in now to tell me i haven't read the fine print... 🤣 >
Click to expand...

I'm yet to see a box that lists powder manufacturer and type. You can get pretty close when reloading though.
Fun fact- when you pack in slower burning single-base powder , it throws flames out of the barrel like remington green box ammo.
Best viewed at night or when the lights are off at an indoor range.

I think it was 2008? 2010? You could get "Pull down" powder in kegs from Federal/Lake City Surplus? You could get powder, casings, pulled projo's. The powder kegs would have a lot# and powder manufacturer on it.

Edit to add- some of the boutique .22 will list a lot# and you can go to that website and get some data out of it. Aguila maybe?
 
Hold on... just gave everyone a quick read... am I thinking "grain" is the gunpowder BUT it is actually the bullet itself? ooops..... ;-)
 
I see! I was thinking "grains" of gunpowder. So it is the weight, therefore "heft" of the lead bullet itself. And the minute difference can actually be detectable?
 
JD401 said:
I see! I was thinking "grains" of gunpowder. So it is the weight, therefore "heft" of the lead bullet itself. And the minute difference can actually be detectable?
Click to expand...

As said "grains" is a unit of weight and mass. It is very detectable/measurable. Most balance beam scales will measure to 0.10 grains; electronic scales probably smaller increments.
Now, as to whether you'll notice any difference in the heft of a cartridge loaded with 5.0 grains of powder vis-a-vis one with 5.4 grains of powder, I doubt it. Some may notice a bit more recoil upon firing, but just handling them, I doubt you'd detect any difference.
 
NavelOfficer said:
Now, as to whether you'll notice any difference in the heft of a cartridge loaded with 5.0 grains of powder vis-a-vis one with 5.4 grains of powder, I doubt it. Some may notice a bit more recoil upon firing, but just handling them, I doubt you'd detect any difference.
Click to expand...
A modest 1% variance in bullet weight will make it difficult to detect powder charge differences by weighing the completed round.
 
JD401 said:
I see! I was thinking "grains" of gunpowder. So it is the weight, therefore "heft" of the lead bullet itself. And the minute difference can actually be detectable?
Click to expand...

The gain weight numbers might not seem like a lot on paper, but translate to a rather drastic performance difference. The lighter 115 grain rounds can hit around 1,200 fps. On the other end, the heavier 147 grain can be as low as 900 fps or even high 800's. All depends on the barrel length, so your actual figures will vary. That means 147 will usually be subsonic out of pistols and most SBR's, not that MA folk will truly enjoy what that can mean when using a can.

There are other areas affected by grain weight as well like bullet drop and muzzle energy, but for 9mm, I don't know how important either of those are considering the most common use scenarios (shooting under 50 yards). Sure, you can shoot further, but I'd then question if another caliber is more appropriate for the role.
 
You would benefit greatly by buying a reloading manual and study. I'm a Hornady manual fan, I don't know the current edition, but the books run about $30. I probably have 4-5 of them around.

They you can pretend to be an expert in the 6.5 mm Grendel v 6.5 mm Creedmoore wars.......
 
JD401 said:
I see! I was thinking "grains" of gunpowder. So it is the weight, therefore "heft" of the lead bullet itself. And the minute difference can actually be detectable?
Click to expand...

Boxes of commercial ammo are marked with the weight of the bullet in grains.
I have never seen a commercial box marked with the weight of the gunpowder.

For 9mm:
I have commercial loads in 115 grn.
I load 124 grn plated round nose bullets or 147 grn plated round nose bullets.
Each of those two bullets takes a different powder load, (amount of powder).
I can feel the difference in the projectiles when I hold them in my hand.

I can feel the difference in the recoil when I shoot them.
 
allen-1 said:
Boxes of commercial ammo are marked with the weight of the bullet in grains.
I have never seen a commercial box marked with the weight of the gunpowder.
Click to expand...
Commercial ammo is not guaranteed to have the same amount of powder even in the same product from run to run. Large batches of powder are qualified, tested and loads calibrated to the batch of powder. It is also possible for vendors to switch powder brands or powders within a brand without changing the product designation. Ditto for primers from small to medium sized manufacturers (Black Hills, Buffalo Bore, etc.) that do not make their own.
 
Glad I asked this first question! Seeing as I never did find a thread on this topic, I hope this one now helps new and/or curious shooters in the future!

Until I actually get to a range and USE this Ruger, I can't really ask many other questions. Only other topic that has me stymied right now is the best way to CARRY the thing. I don't use a purse, only wear belts in winter, etc...

I do wish there was a section for less experienced members here...
 
JD401 said:
Glad I asked this first question! Seeing as I never did find a thread on this topic, I hope this one now helps new and/or curious shooters in the future!

Until I actually get to a range and USE this Ruger, I can't really ask many other questions. Only other topic that has me stymied right now is the best way to CARRY the thing. I don't use a purse, only wear belts in winter, etc...

I do wish there was a section for less experienced members here...
Click to expand...

Only thing I can say about carry is to use some sort of holster that covers the trigger. It really sucks to dig into your pocket and pull the trigger as you're pulling the gun out.

Edited to add:
1) There are members of this forum who are female and might be able to better help you with method of carry.
2) Welcome to A Girl and A Gun Women's Shooting League
 
To add to the confusion, some ammo mfrs., (mostly European) will list bullet weight in grams.
If you are handloading ammo (that is, making your own ammo) with an electronic scale, make sure it is set to grains not grams or ounces.
 

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