Plugged Nipple?

namedpipes

namedpipes

NES Member
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
47,038
Likes
51,262
Location
The foothills of Monadnock
Feedback: 3 / 0 / 0
Newly acquired c. 1820 Ketland & Adams percussion conversion.

Two issues with it. One is a plugged or clogged nipple and the other are two small pits in the barrel.

Scraping at the nipple's hole doesn't seem to dislodge any of the material so I'm not sure if it is rusted shut or perhaps soldered shut? The metal is a little chewed up there and I'm pretty sure it will break off if I try to remove it.

I can't decide if the pits are from rust or from a tool. In either case, do they look deep enough to be a problem?

I doubt if I'd ever try to shoot it (even after repairs), but I'd like to know it functions as it should. Opinions? Suggestions?

Closeup of a nipple that meets Derek's image posting guidelines: [shocked]

100_1977.jpg


Closeup of the pits:

100_1970.jpg
 
It does look more like a tool mark that a rust pit. Note: the picture is actually more or less upside down - I forgot to flip the image over.

If they *are* proof marks I shouldn't have to be concerned. Better safe than sorry...
 
The pits sure look like proofs to me.

If you must know that it will function, you can run a small drill in the nipple, but I suspect you'll only find the the hole in the chamber that the nipple connects to is just as plugged.

I wouldn't worry about it's functionality as it probably not safe to shoot anyway.

Clean it up, gently and admire it as you would any relic.
 
Pilgrim said:
The pits sure look like proofs to me.

If you must know that it will function, you can run a small drill in the nipple, but I suspect you'll only find the the hole in the chamber that the nipple connects to is just as plugged.

I wouldn't worry about it's functionality as it probably not safe to shoot anyway.

Clean it up, gently and admire it as you would any relic.
Click to expand...

I guess it is the perfectionist in me... I think I will do that, though, and just enjoy it... Its a little like the sanding marks in some drywalled ceilings I did a while ago - nobody ELSE is likely to notice [laugh]

scouter-rick said:
I would love to see a couple pics of the entire firearm. If I may be so bold as to request that you display your find ;-)
Click to expand...

By all means, but the danged thing is so long, and my photog skills ...

It is all present and the lock / trigger operate, except for the plugged nipple and a 190 year old barrel it would probably shoot [smile]

Here is a series that shows it off reasonably well:

The lock
100_1955.jpg


The whole gun from a mile or so away
100_1960-1.jpg


A nicely aged (walnut?) stock
100_1961.jpg


Barrel...
100_1962.jpg


More barrel...
100_1963.jpg


And a crappy picture inside...
100_1972.jpg
 
One important note for thought with old muzzleloaders. These guns were most likely kept loaded, on the hearth or over the mantle for just in case situations, what I always do when I purchase an antique muzzleloader is take it apart and make sure it is not loaded.

I acquired a 1774 brown bess, all original that was up in an attic in essex for god knows how long, it was wrapped in a linen cloth and hidden underneath the floor, when a friend was redoing the house he found it and gave it to me thinking it was junk...I let him think that. I took it apart and found that the barrel was still loaded from a very long time ago. Ever since then I've always made sure it was unloaded, better be safe than sorry. It looks like a smoothbore so it might be loaded with birdshot.

The nipple on that rifle looks like an old replacement nipple from the late 1800's, you can buy the nipple removal tool from trackofthewolf.com or you can use a small adjustable wrench trying not to hurt the threads, I would weary about drilling or hammering a nail down there, don't want to hurt the gun, try to take the nipple off first.

As for firing, as long as the nipple is clear and the drum is free of debris I would fire it, I have 6 antique muzzleloaders, 5 of which can still fire perfectly.
 
I did run the ramrod in and it "seemed" to bottom the barrel. I'll measure it more carefully tomorrow. Is there another way to verify if it is loaded?

Yes, it is a smoothbore and the inside is smoothly and thinly rusted (no scaling or pitting). The outside finish is mostly a beautiful brown patina except right around the nipple some rust and tooling marks from badly fitted wrenches.

The nipple has a square base, so I'm guessing that would take the "Nipple Wrench for Muskets, with square socket, for 1/4" square flats" from that web site? I'll try some penetrating oil on it and try easing it out.

I'd be satisfied to display this gun but I'd love to shoot it...
 
Gently work the nipple with a little oil before twisting, you will know if you are hurting it.

You need a ball puller for ramrod to screw into any projectile that may be in there. Powder of the day was corrosive so hopefully it was empty. One fine looking gun though.
If the rod is wood, for your safety and so you don't break original, buy a replacement rod made of Fglass or other synthetic material.

My BIL gave me a Kentucky rifle for Christmas two years ago and I only need a polymer rod to use it.

BTW, is it a 70 cal.?
 
Last edited:
namedpipes said:
The nipple has a square base, so I'm guessing that would take the "Nipple Wrench for Muskets, with square socket, for 1/4" square flats" from that web site? I'll try some penetrating oil on it and try easing it out.=
Click to expand...

Measure the nipple with a caliper or something to make sure it is the right size, the wrenches come in different sizes and depending on when your gun was converted from Flintlock to percussion the musket cap nipple was what they had available.

Does your drum, underneath the nipple have a screw for cleaning? If so you can shine your bore light through that and if you see it up the barrel your chamber is clear. If you do end up fixing the nipple and firing it make sure you use the caliper to determine what exact caliber the rifle is, smoothbores ranged from 50-80 in the day, most likely it is a .69 but always err on the side of caution.

If you need any help let me know, I might even have a nipple wrench that might fit.

Zack
 
This was left to me by my uncle. I had already received some others last year, but this one was literally buried in a forgotten dusty closet and came to light last week. I have no doubt he tucked it there 30 or 40 years ago and forgot all about it.

I will take some better measurements of the bore and the nipple tonight.

Attached is probably the clearest picture I have right now of the nipple. Right below it is what appears to be a somewhat mangled square headed screw that is probably the cleanout you mention. That area is the roughest on the gun. Most everything else on it looks like it sat in the corner of a closet for decades [laugh]

Don't be surprised if I take you up on the offer. The tools aren't expensive but I'd hate to ruin the gun by not knowing that "ONE" thing that turned out to be important [thinking]
 

Attachments

  • 100_1979.jpg
    100_1979.jpg
    153.9 KB · Views: 27
I saw that damage in the original photo, that's why I think you'll have problems, and why I suggested it might not be shootable. Looks like pretty heavy rust that has weakened that area substantially.

Whatever you do, go easy. It'd be a shame to ruin that nice piece.
 
I will tread very lightly, Pilgrim. I like this gun.

The bore mics about .645" (inside dia), about 6" into the barrel. "slightly" wider right at the mouth.

The drum(?) head is a trifle over 1/4" square, but that could be from rounding.

The nipple faces are just about 3/16" square.

I don't have a wrench that will fit these without rounding and while googling nipple wrenches is entertaining, it is so far unhelpful. Not sure if 3/16" might equal a #10 or #11?
 
You may be able to use a twist drill bit and ream the hole by hand or try a dentist type pick. From the looks of the heavy rust on the nip and barrel it may not have been cleaned after last session whenever that was.
 
What are the chances we could get together at the Gunpowder Pig (those of you planning to go) to try to get this repaired? Possibly even try a blank charge if the nipple can be cleaned or replaced?
 

Similar threads

Need A Safety Plug For S&W 1911 Ambi Safety
Replies
12
Views
4K
Rob Boudrie
Rob Boudrie
1911 Recoil Spring Plug
Replies
9
Views
2K
drgrant
drgrant
Glock Slug Plug
Replies
10
Views
3K
vicpinto
vicpinto
Back
Top Bottom