Police: Woburn Man Who Just Received License To Carry Accidentally Shoots Friend While Showing New Gun

Generall I'm against the Gov adding restriction to gun ownership. But every time I hear about an incident like this, and someone brings up a training requirement with live fire, I find it hard to argue my side. It's easy for those like myself that had a decade of shooting experience before getting their LTC, to look at a completely inexperienced person just getting an LTC and wonder WTF. And frankly, what MA requires isn't really training in my mind, its just for show and to make another hoop to jump through. If it was real training it would take a lot more than one day.

Are there circumstances where I could support a, real, training requirement, maybe. It would have to be a once-in-a-lifetime thing. It would need to be paid 100% by the gov. and available to everyone. It would have to be made available on a flexible schedule so anyone could make it fit into their life (not just held Tues-Thurs at 2:30). Basically make sure it isn't a burden on anyone who wants to exercise their 2a right.
Can you walk me through the other enumerated rights in the Constitution the require mandatory training before exercising them? Freedom of Religion? Vote? I have to take a test before I can be secure in my person, house, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures?
 
But a police officer does the same thing ADing(*) through someone's neck (Duncan - Stamps shooting in Framingham) and the DA's first words are "accident for which criminal charges are not appropriate".

* - and yes, I know some are hung up on using the terminology ND.

I could be reading the last part of your post incorrectly. The police use the term to cover their ass, no?
I don’t think there are accidental discharges, only intentional and negligent. If you didn’t mean to pull or actuate the trigger intentionally, it’s negligence in one form or another.

Sig may disagree though.
 
Even very experienced and otherwise proficient gun guys have NDs. Complacency kills.

Also, poor kid that took one to the neck. I’ve been carrying one around in my ankle for 30 years thanks to a retard with a gun. Non gun people tend to assume that the guy holding the gun knows what he is doing.
Your second statement says it all.
 
But a police officer does the same thing ADing(*) through someone's neck (Duncan - Stamps shooting in Framingham) and the DA's first words are "accident for which criminal charges are not appropriate". Duncan is still a police officer and presumably still has his LTC.

* - and yes, I know some are hung up on using the terminology ND.
Don't forget all the PD negligent discharges while working construction details due to jacket draw strings and or playing with holstered guns that never result in charges or disciplinary action.
 
I could be reading the last part of your post incorrectly. The police use the term to cover their ass, no?
I don’t think there are accidental discharges, only intentional and negligent. If you didn’t mean to pull or actuate the trigger intentionally, it’s negligence in one form or another.

Sig may disagree though.
Still not a great term. I think we should universally switch to intentional and unintentional discharges.
 
Don't forget all the PD negligent discharges while working construction details due to jacket draw strings and or playing with holstered guns that never result in charges or disciplinary action.
Cops don't need an easily-revocable LTC like us peons. They carry on the badge and have LEOSA, which is a huge advantage they have over us.
 
This is what i tell/show people all hopped up on someone "should need a permit to get a gun" a BFS course doesn't mean they're going to act safely.
 
Someone on Facebook said they were the same Groupon class with him. LOL if true.
Oh, another Groupon class. I've met three Groupon Firearm School graduates who never heard of the three rules of firearm safety. Two of them were my friends so I spent half an hour with them discussing these things, the third one...well, not my circus, not my clowns.
 
Not sure if serious because there are clearly incidents that are negligent..... changing verbiage to try to mask that is not going to change reality...
My thought was that if intentional/unintentional, everyone gets the benefit of the doubt. No more “negligent” for you and “accidental” for Mr. Police man.

Think also the difference between a gun going off because it slipped out of your sweaty hand and did a 1 in a million loop onto a branch with the trigger guard vs. what this nipple head did in the story.
 
My thought was that if intentional/unintentional, everyone gets the benefit of the doubt. No more “negligent” for you and “accidental” for Mr. Police man.
Still doesn't stop someone from getting whacked with the law, which doesn't care about that wording. (Discharge within xxx of dwellung blah blah) The cop thing is a TBL problem.
 
Old COP had a policy of only unrestricted for Woburn business owners or if needed for employment. A restricted LTC was easy to get. Not sure what the new COP’s stance is though as I have not had any dealings with him yet.
Still shit-red town, unlikely to change.
 
Can you walk me through the other enumerated rights in the Constitution the require mandatory training before exercising them? Freedom of Religion? Vote? I have to take a test before I can be secure in my person, house, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures?

Maybe an intelligence test to vote?
Maybe?🤔
Let's just cut the self delusional, hyperbolic BS and try to be honest with yourself. These may all be Rights but like everything else in the world they are not identical. Saying they are the same is the same as saying men and women are the same, they are equal in some ways and different in others. I know it requires more thought but give it a try.
The simple fact is that firearms ownership require more responsibility than free speech. And it's pretty hard to accidentally say something that immediately results in physical harm or death to a bystander.
The attitude that firearms ownership doesn't inherently require an understanding of the necessary responsibility is what leads to an NDs. And there are lots of gun owners out there that don't get it, those are the ones calling it an AD and saying it just happens sometimes, BS it doesn't just happen.
And if you want historical context, I find it highly unlikely that the authors of the BoR, who lived in a time where firearms ownership, knowledge, and use was universal could even imagine a time when a second generation basement dweller who's only knowledge of firearms came from Call of Duty would ever exist. And communities were small, so the local gunsmith would likely know who the village idiot was and not sell him a gun, all without the gov making a law.

I think I made it clear I wasn't looking for Gov. to put in a requirement, Gov. F's up everything. Just that I could understand where that position would come from intellectually and it makes for a harder fact based argument.

And it is a fact that we do restrict Rights. A training requirement would a restriction on a right, but we restrict Freedom of Religion in that if your religion preaches death to homosexuals, you still can't do that. And we restrict Freedom of Speech with the classic you can't yell fire in a theater. And I don't have a problem requiring an ID to vote, another restriction. So the argument that it's a Right and can't be restricted falls flat in the face of the facts. So you best have a better argument that that, and these BS NDs make that more difficult.

If you're going to fight the anti-gun agenda you need to have arguments that just might work on them and the undecided, and that means facts and understanding where they are coming from, and countering with an argument that works for you and against them. Just shouting "RIGHTS"is preaching to the choir, it hasn't worked so far and it's not going to magically start working.
 
Oh, another Groupon class. I've met three Groupon Firearm School graduates who never heard of the three rules of firearm safety. Two of them were my friends so I spent half an hour with them discussing these things, the third one...well, not my circus, not my clowns.
That twat in Everett photocopying NRA materials comes to mind.
 
Oh, another Groupon class. I've met three Groupon Firearm School graduates who never heard of the three rules of firearm safety. Two of them were my friends so I spent half an hour with them discussing these things, the third one...well, not my circus, not my clowns.
Aren't there four fundamental rules.
 
The simple fact is that firearms ownership require more responsibility than free speech.

Between 1932 and 1945, Adolf Hitler was responsible for 24 million people dead, just by opening his yap. And that's just the casualties between Allied losses and the Holocaust- not including the additional millions of civilians, along with forces not directly aligned with the UK-US-USSR partnership.

Let's cut the hyperbole. Give a charismatic lunatic a microphone, and they can do more damage than the confirmed totals in Chris Kyle's logbook.
 
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