Polish and East German 9X18's

[MJ1]

.................................

A very overlooked cartridge.

 

[Matt-CZ]

I've always been a bit curious about the decision to adopt the 9x18mm. I wish I knew more about the intentions of those making that call.

It's certainly a departure from the previous 7.62 tokarev cartridge. The lower power allows for the use of compact, straight blowback designs, many of which are very fine pistols for a fairly low price. Such a stark comparison against the west, with our full size 1911's and other service pistols, while the East had rather small service weapons as the standard.

 

[daekken]

I've always been a bit curious about the decision to adopt the 9x18mm. I wish I knew more about the intentions of those making that call.

It's certainly a departure from the previous 7.62 tokarev cartridge. The lower power allows for the use of compact, straight blowback designs, many of which are very fine pistols for a fairly low price. Such a stark comparison against the west, with our full size 1911's and other service pistols, while the East had rather small service weapons as the standard.

According to Wikipedia:
"The adoption of the future AK assault rifle relegated the pistol to a light, handy self-defence weapon. Therefore, the TT30/33 [Tokarev] was unsuited for such a role, as it was heavy and bulky. Also, the Tokarev pistols omitted a safety and magazines were deemed too easy to lose. As a result, in December 1945, two separate contests for a new service pistol were created, respectively for a 7.62mm and 9mm pistol. It was later judged that the new 9.2×18mm cartridge, designed by B. V. Semin, was the best round suited for the intended role. The lower pressures of the cartridge allowed practical straight blowback operation (reducing the cost and complexity of the weapon), while retaining low recoil and good stopping power."

So, in my interpretation, arming folks with the AK as a self-loader made follow up shots quick and easy compared to a 91/30, thus reducing the necessity of a full-size pistol, as the pistol truly became a backup/last resort. Not sure I buy the "magazines were too easy to lose" part. Keep in mind Europe in general seemed to have a soft spot for smaller cartridges in the 20th Century. Germany had the 9x19 P38/P1 but also used the PPK in 32 and 380; Italy used the 9mm Glisenti, etc.

I enjoy my East German Makarov; the machining is very nice. I've carried mine on occasion with Hornady Critical Defense; for its size, the Makarov fits a nice niche.

 

[MJ1]

Interesting summery daekken.

In 1966 when I was in school a the Weapons Command Center Ft. Sill we were told of system wide change in the Soviet small arms we might see and shown photos from Europe. I never saw an example in the field but then I was only seeing the arms carried by VC/PLF units mostly WW2 U.S. and and surplus/captured French arms till 1968. Chines and a few Russian TT33's in really rough condition were common. I had one with a field made holster and clear plastic grips. Never had enough ammo to make use of it. I have a Vietnamese friend who collects period bring-backs and he does have a 9X18 Makarov with capture papers from 1969. I served in the same location and supported his father's artillery unit and gifted him a French 9mm long pistol for his father. More than a few times his 105's saved my life with CLOSE support.

 

[KBCraig]

I had a 1963 East German Makarov that I bought for the price of a Bulgarian ($129 with full kit, when the EGs were selling for 2-3 times that price).

It's the only gun that I ever bought intending to keep forever, that I wound up selling in a moment of desperation. I still regret letting it go.

For defensive purposes, available 9x18 loads are no better than modern .380 ACP, and most pistols that use it are designed for ball ammo; they might not handle JHPs well.

That EG Mak was such a pleasure to shoot despite the tiny military sights, and was amazingly accurate.

 

[45collector]

I bought my first Makarov over 10 years ago on my C&R license, and that is the only East German I still own. I've owned 5 of them at different times, 2 Bulgarians, and one Russian. I've had two CZ82's a P64 and a P83. I'm a fan of 9x18 guns obviously.

I carried that first EG as my warm weather gun for about 8 years. The finish was well worn on it when I decided to send the slide off to Novak's. Huge difference in sight acquisition!

For defensive purposes, available 9x18 loads are no better than modern .380 ACP, and most pistols that use it are designed for ball ammo; they might not handle JHPs well.

For the most part, factory spec 9x18 isn't much more potent than .380. Velocity is generally higher but that's about it. Corbon makes a line of pretty serious 9x18 rounds though, putting the ballistics more into .38spl land. I have never tried any of their products though. Even though I permanently altered my '62 EG slide, I try not to beat the living shit out of it, which Corbon loads certainly will do.

I started reloading 9x18 several years back and I make a nice mild load for range/ plinking. One of the clubs I belong to does a monthly "snubby shoot" which is basically just: Shoot 12 rounds through any handgun at about 10 yards on a pistol target. Best score gets nothing but bragging rights. I will usually shoot either my EG or Bulgy Makarov at that event, and with both of those I can easily keep all my rounds in the X ring.

 

[MJ1]

Nice wood grip 45collector. Who made it ?

 

[45collector]

Nice wood grip 45collector. Who made it ?

Dammit now I wish I hadn't sold all those pristine, unmolested EG's.

I bought that grip from Gunboards. There are no markings anywhere on it but I think it was made by Marschal Grips in Budapest.

 

[KBCraig]

I had a Pearce grip on mine. It came with both the black and red plastic grips, chintzy shoulder holster, cleaning kit, and one spare magazine.

 

[45collector]

 

[Matt-CZ]

According to Wikipedia:
"The adoption of the future AK assault rifle relegated the pistol to a light, handy self-defence weapon. Therefore, the TT30/33 [Tokarev] was unsuited for such a role, as it was heavy and bulky. Also, the Tokarev pistols omitted a safety and magazines were deemed too easy to lose. As a result, in December 1945, two separate contests for a new service pistol were created, respectively for a 7.62mm and 9mm pistol. It was later judged that the new 9.2×18mm cartridge, designed by B. V. Semin, was the best round suited for the intended role. The lower pressures of the cartridge allowed practical straight blowback operation (reducing the cost and complexity of the weapon), while retaining low recoil and good stopping power."

So, in my interpretation, arming folks with the AK as a self-loader made follow up shots quick and easy compared to a 91/30, thus reducing the necessity of a full-size pistol, as the pistol truly became a backup/last resort. Not sure I buy the "magazines were too easy to lose" part. Keep in mind Europe in general seemed to have a soft spot for smaller cartridges in the 20th Century. Germany had the 9x19 P38/P1 but also used the PPK in 32 and 380; Italy used the 9mm Glisenti, etc.

I enjoy my East German Makarov; the machining is very nice. I've carried mine on occasion with Hornady Critical Defense; for its size, the Makarov fits a nice niche.

For a rifleman, a compact, relatively small and lightweight pistol is probably adequate. A pistol as a secondary weapon should probably prioritize portability over other factors. This becomes more interesting when you consider roles in which the pistol is the primary weapon, like support and police roles. In those roles, it is a bit strange that a relatively compact design is the primary weapon.

 

[daekken]

I was going to shoot my Makarov today, but my range friend decided it was too hot and I didn't go alone.
Next week, perhaps.