Possible friendly fire in shootings on the Border

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Would the administration fabric a story and pin the guilt on an agent instead of more blame on F&F? I don't even have to be cynical to believe it.
 
On the one hand, I'll reserve judgement until I hear something more substantiated than this report.

On the other hand, Sen. Grassley threw out the biggest non-sequitor I've ever seen.

"This may have been friendly fire. Therefor, I should say something to relate it to Fast and Furious."

Meanwhile, given the country's level of ambivalence/ignorance about F&F, I assume the average person is going to be scratching their head trying to figure out if this senator is accusing Vin Diesel of shooting a border agent.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-possible-friendly-fire-shootings-143452521.html



[sad2]
I hope this wasn't the case, shooting a buddy must be the worst. Friendly fire always sucks


I doubt our guys just opened up for no reason so there probably was a 2sided exchange and the bad guys made it back to Mexico. Last I heard was 2 guys apprehended in Mexico with a revolver. If they had a revolver, there won't be other brass and will be hard to figure out what happened other than witness accounts. Assuming all the rounds in the agent can be sourced to the other agent's/agents' gun/guns.

Our shootings are pretty well documented, I don't know of any off hand that were not considered 'justified', other than Ramos/Campeon (which was probably justified but looks bad with the brushout). I'm sure there are some out there, but it's pretty rare if it happens. One thing I always told the new guys was 'every time you shoot your gun, you just sparked an international incident'. Tends to keep things in perspective.
 
Just to update, the official word is straight up friendly fire. The word is one guy opened fire on the other agent when they met in the dark. If true, I have no words. This is not how we operate, either by firing first or not identifying yourself while initiating contact. According to the report, the agent who shot first is the one who died. So I guess he paid the price, however high, for bad tactics.

Unfortunately, his side of the story will never be known. From people who knew him, this was out of character. But that's where it stands for now. I left my above post intact. Hopefully, something can be learned from this. As far as I know, this is the first time in our history this has happened (other than AD/ND's).
 
This whole thing just really pisses me off to the max.

Anyone else watch Border Wars?

Those guys are out there playing hide and seek with drug runners and illegal aliens under dumb butt Rules of Engagement.

I would like to know what happened to protecting our borders? I do not include sending guys out on foot, or on quads, in small teams over huge areas of desert as "protecting the border". That may have worked like 50 years ago before we had organized cartels shipping drugs here and an influx of illegal aliens.

For all of you "The government created the mess with the War on Drugs" argument, yea, ok, fine. It is what it is. We also have about 12 million illegal aliens in this country. Sending out guys to chase folks around in the dark in small teams is just plain stupid, eventually things like this are going to happen.

If we can send billions upon trillions over to the mideast to protect those folks is there any reason we cannot protect our own border without having guys milling about in a dark desert shooting each other?

I think a large fence with about a three mile wide no man's land would work pretty well in most places? Guard towers located in appropriate vantage points. Sign on the Mexico side that says "U.S. Border, Federal Property. Trespassers Will Be Shot."

Only a few would need to be shot, after that, no one would be interested in trying to cross that 3 miles of no man's land, drug smuggles or illegal aliens. It would actually save lives. Right now, lots of people are dying out in the desert.
 
This whole thing just really pisses me off to the max.

Anyone else watch Border Wars?

Those guys are out there playing hide and seek with drug runners and illegal aliens under dumb butt Rules of Engagement.

I would like to know what happened to protecting our borders? I do not include sending guys out on foot, or on quads, in small teams over huge areas of desert as "protecting the border". That may have worked like 50 years ago before we had organized cartels shipping drugs here and an influx of illegal aliens.

For all of you "The government created the mess with the War on Drugs" argument, yea, ok, fine. It is what it is. We also have about 12 million illegal aliens in this country. Sending out guys to chase folks around in the dark in small teams is just plain stupid, eventually things like this are going to happen.

If we can send billions upon trillions over to the mideast to protect those folks is there any reason we cannot protect our own border without having guys milling about in a dark desert shooting each other?

I think a large fence with about a three mile wide no man's land would work pretty well in most places? Guard towers located in appropriate vantage points. Sign on the Mexico side that says "U.S. Border, Federal Property. Trespassers Will Be Shot."

Only a few would need to be shot, after that, no one would be interested in trying to cross that 3 miles of no man's land, drug smuggles or illegal aliens. It would actually save lives. Right now, lots of people are dying out in the desert.


.gov does not want to protect our Southern border and they ACTIVELY prosecute any State that attempts to do so.

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons for their position. Drug money kickbacks. Cloward–Piven.

I have a place 17 miles North of the border and it's a freeway. DO NOT ENGAGE. You'll be out gunned and out manned. I have seen Military troop carries (not ours) rumbling through the night loaded with armed personnel and a lot a dope. Stay the hell away. One of these days I will get a .50 and slow that s*** down or, at the least, make them go around me.
 
One thing I always told the new guys was 'every time you shoot your gun, you just sparked an international incident'. Tends to keep things in perspective.
This

This is not how we operate, either by firing first or not identifying yourself while initiating contact.
And this

From what I've observed, we as a whole are EXTREMELY hesitant to draw our firearms, even at the cost of safety and in situations where it is very obvious that drawing is reasonable. A few weeks ago I responded to a request for backup from the local PD. They were in a standoff with an armed subject who had barricaded himself in an apartment. When I arrived on scene I saw a perimeter of cops around the building, all of which had guns drawn and aimed in. There were a half dozen or so other BPA's on scene already also, all of which were also standing right on the front of the established perimeter, yet none of them had guns drawn. It really struck me as odd, but it's indicative of the culture. I can't imagine an agent just firing blinding in the dark at an unidentified target.
 
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