Going to powder coat some 6.5 mm bullets in the next day or so but might give HiTek a call to try their product. I've shot powder coat out of a 300 blk AR 15 at standard rifle velocities,no residue other than burnt powder and no clogging of the gas tube.
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Powder coat vs. Hi-Tek
- Thread starter TrashcanDan
- Start date
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Nice! He’s an awesome dude and dedicated to his job for sure.
Jay77
NES Member
So I’ve been shooting my cast 45’s and yesterday I yanked the barrel while I was chatting with my buddy. And I found my barrel had some leading so I have to figure out what is up. I have to look at all the facts and come up with a solution. Right now I have to many variables. I’m using lead that should be around a 12 for hardness coated in Hi Tek. I’m belling the case a lot and the crimp should be light. I’m loaded up a couple hundred rounds so I’m going to grab a few random bullets and pull them to see what the crimp is looking like and if I’m shaving off any lead during the seating process. I slugged my bore and it was .451 and I sized them to .452. Even with the leading they shoot amazing.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Is it leading or is it fouling? Sometimes the coating can leave a little fouling in the barrel if it’s not totally cured.
Crimp can be an issue too. How many rounds have you fired? Any pics of the leading?
Jay77
NES Member
It was definitely lead and I didn’t take any pictures. I cleaned it up and I was going to send more of the 230 round nose through to see if I can recreate it. I’ll take pictures when it leads back up. I’m thinking I may have scraped some of the 200 SWC I shot the other day. More to follow.
Where its leading is a good indicator of whats going on.
Heavy towards the muzzle?
All the way down?
Heavy right after the chamber?
Jay77
NES Member
So I forced myself to go to the range yesterday and I pushed about a hundred through the gun pretty quick. The leading was through pretty much all of the barrel. I pulled a bullet to check the crimp and it was barely noticeable. I also did a run test and a smash test and passed on both of them.
Those are the particles I got after I ran some Chore Boy through the barrel. Some pretty good pieces came out. These were sized to .452 over 4.6 grains of Bullseye with a length of 1.220.
Those are the particles I got after I ran some Chore Boy through the barrel. Some pretty good pieces came out. These were sized to .452 over 4.6 grains of Bullseye with a length of 1.220.
Chamber need to be Throated?
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
This is a common issue. There can be a little sharp step instead of a gentle taper to the start of the rifling. This can shear off coating.
1911 Throating
About once a month a new thread appears concerning the use of cast boolits in a 1911. IMHO the majority of the problems with failure to go fully into battery, or leading in the first inch of the barrel, when folks first try cast in their 1911 result from the lack of throating in many newer...
castboolits.gunloads.com
So I don't have a book in front of me, but the Alliant website list 4.6 of bullseye, but doesn't list if thats max charge or not. That looks like a 200 gr rn head?
Maybe clocking it down some would help? The lyman book is my go-to for cast .45, but like I said, its not in front of me.
Did you dig one ( or a dozen) out of the berm? How did they look?
Side note-
I was getting leading in a 625 with 200 gr rn. Thought it was a forcing cone, timing issue or sizing.
Switched back to 230's, haven't had an issue since.
Different powders, but its something to consider.
Bingo.
Right on the ledge. Chatter marks will do it every time.
Maybe clocking it down some would help? The lyman book is my go-to for cast .45, but like I said, its not in front of me.
Did you dig one ( or a dozen) out of the berm? How did they look?
Side note-
I was getting leading in a 625 with 200 gr rn. Thought it was a forcing cone, timing issue or sizing.
Switched back to 230's, haven't had an issue since.
Different powders, but its something to consider.
Bingo.
Right on the ledge. Chatter marks will do it every time.
Jay77
NES Member
The start of the lands look pretty worn. Not sharp and square like the ones in the picture. When I loaded up my first round I used the seating length I use for FMJ ... I threw the Dillon tool head in and loaded up a round. I did the plunk test and it failed so I shorted the length till it chambered. Later today I’ll scrub the barrel and send more pictures. I could send a few rounds through my shield to see if that also leads. I have the .451 sizer I could try instead of the .452. And would the throating issue happen with SWC?
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
I think it will happen with any bullet style. Let’s see some pics of it clean and see what it looks like.
pastera
NES Member
For 9mm*, powder choice matters - too fast of a powder and the rounds lead like crazy. Going from 231 to CFE-Pistol resulted in a change from unusable (bad leading in less than 20 rounds) to clean with 2-3 patches after 400+.
* - big difference between 9mm and 45 ACP. I can run the same alloy, same coating with 231 in my 380 without any issues at all. 45 ACP should be able to run a fast powder but every gun is different.
* - big difference between 9mm and 45 ACP. I can run the same alloy, same coating with 231 in my 380 without any issues at all. 45 ACP should be able to run a fast powder but every gun is different.
I was thinking hardness might be an issue. Max velocity for .45 is around 900 fps?
10 bhn might be a bit too much? Might be gas cutting? Or blow-by due to lack of .....ob-tur-blur-ation or however its spelled. Obteration?
But theres the coating so............................that should eliminate it?
Thinking while I type, bear with me.
Still measuring .452 on the pulled bullets?
So I'm looking in the Lymans book (cast 4th) and it calls for a 1.272" o.a.l. but you went ..........1.220 (scrolling, thinking AND typing, this could get dangerous) and running 4.6 of bullseye ( book shows 4.0/5.0).....so you're in the middle...........but......... would setting it back .040 cause that much of a difference in velocity?
List 4 gr= 680 fps/ 5 gr = 815 f.p.s. @ 1.272" with chamber pressure at 10,100/ 14,400.................I guess setting it back that .040" with that powder put you more towards the 800 fps/14,400 mark with a "hardcast"
Would a lesser bhn seal better on a low velocity round?
I'd still like to see what they look like out of the berm and if its still .452 on the pulled ones. And what that chamber looks like, although if you've shot and never had an issue with s.w.c.'s.........then.............aliens..........................
10 bhn might be a bit too much? Might be gas cutting? Or blow-by due to lack of .....ob-tur-blur-ation or however its spelled. Obteration?
But theres the coating so............................that should eliminate it?
Thinking while I type, bear with me.
Still measuring .452 on the pulled bullets?
So I'm looking in the Lymans book (cast 4th) and it calls for a 1.272" o.a.l. but you went ..........1.220 (scrolling, thinking AND typing, this could get dangerous) and running 4.6 of bullseye ( book shows 4.0/5.0).....so you're in the middle...........but......... would setting it back .040 cause that much of a difference in velocity?
List 4 gr= 680 fps/ 5 gr = 815 f.p.s. @ 1.272" with chamber pressure at 10,100/ 14,400.................I guess setting it back that .040" with that powder put you more towards the 800 fps/14,400 mark with a "hardcast"
Would a lesser bhn seal better on a low velocity round?
I'd still like to see what they look like out of the berm and if its still .452 on the pulled ones. And what that chamber looks like, although if you've shot and never had an issue with s.w.c.'s.........then.............aliens..........................
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
I went through all the same in my head but it’s not making sense. Even the higher pressure worn cause issues. I run relatively soft alloy to about 1800 FPS in my lever guns with no issues.
So I’m wondering..... did every coat pass the acetone test? Also try smashing 10 bullets. Sounds weird but I had a contaminant issue one time. My sprue plate lube got into the cavities and some bullets had a little residue.So when I coated a few thousand in a sitting I happened to pick ones that passed the test each time.
Fast forward and through a lot of thinking and asking on castboolits I figure it out. Smashing 10 bullets would show about 2 or 3 that wouldn’t pass the test.
If 1/3 of your bullets were not passing the test they could cause leading.
Just a thought. Who knows.
Jay77
NES Member
It gave me pleasure to do some smashing after scraping. I think you are on to something with the coating being potentially bad. Here is a pic of my smashed bullets. Some pass and some are questionable. Also while I was getting ready to smash them I noticed some exposed lead on the bottom after going through the sizer.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Hmmm hard to tell from the barrel pic. It’s such a hard thing to photograph.
if you’re noticing inconsistencies in coating now it’s time to find out why. Do you use an sprue plate lube? Drop them onto an old dirty rag while casting?
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Not too small though. I always found that too small a batch is harder to work with. I like 5-7# for a batch.
Jay77
NES Member
Now that the range is open I can head out and run some test batches. But I’m going to clean all the molds, re cast the bullets. Mix up a new batch of Hi Tek in a different color and give it another run. Then take them to the range for a rip. 5 pounds is a good starting point.
If you have softer alloy try that. i would re slug your barrel also.
what bullet are you using . I can run it through quick loads and get a idea of what pressure your running at.
Bullet type : mold or the length&weight of the bullet
Power type/charge
Case length
Your COAL.
Jay77
NES Member
case length avg .89
Load bullseye 4.6 grains
Avg bullet weight is 232 grains
COAL = 1.22 to 1.23
Mold Lee 452-228
I can run some over a chrono.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
You’re going to like that a lot more than the Lee
