Pre-Ban ARs in MA

[WargameHub]

I’m hoping to make a Pre-Ban AR sticky for MA (if one of the moderators likes the idea). I couldn’t find one in the search or by looking through the laws and these questions seem to come up a lot. I don’t know the answers but I know everyone out there does. If there are any other questions to put on here let me know and I will edit it (and add answers).

***Identifying the lower***

The thread “Pre-Ban AR15 Information for those who still live under the AWB” in the Hardware section is very informative for identifying the pre-ban lowers. I will try to add the link later.

***Lower Receiver***

Other than the serial numbered part is there anything you CANNOT replace on a pre-ban lower.

***Stock***

If the collapsible stock is damaged can it be replaced with a new collapsible stock?

Can you replace an A2 style stock with a collapsible stock?

***Upper Receiver***

Can you use a brand new upper with a flash hider on a pre-ban lower?

Are there any strange restrictions with putting uppers on pre-ban lowers?

***Barrel***

Can you replace the barrel and keep the flash hider?

Can you replace the barrel with a different length and keep the flash hider?

***Other***

Are there any other strange rules that go with pre-ban ARs in MA?

 

[chinalfr]

You haven't been to arfcom? Why reinventing the wheel? Also, all the answer can be found at lmgtfy.com

 

[WargameHub]

People ask the questions here so it would be useful to have the answers here in one place.

 

[Romeosierra616]

People ask the questions here so it would be useful to have the answers here in one place.

^This.

 

[bigtig50]

Agreed!

 

[chinalfr]

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...mation-for-those-who-still-live-under-the-AWB

I don't know what this sticky thread about?

 

[WargameHub]

That was the one I referenced. Nicely explains how to ID preban but NOT what you can do to it.

 

[chinalfr]

That was the one I referenced. Nicely explains how to ID preban but NOT what you can do to it.

Did you look under MA Gun law section?

 

[WargameHub]

Yes. . For a while. No one stop shopping. Would you mind telling the rest of us why you are so against putting all the info in one place on NES?

 

[drgrant]

Most of the people asking these questions will not read your FAQ. I guarantee it. Look at the handgun compliance crap- I wrote a faq that basically answers 98% of the questions but people still either don't see it or don't seek out the information. They will completely ignore it or not look for it and just post a question. That said, we do need an AWB Faq in the MA gun law section, if anything to punt people to to shut down mindlessly redundant compliance threads.

If you are just going to write a faq about "Identifying pre ban AR's" then I think TypeO's sticky already covers that, and you are better off just bumping his existing thread with whatever kind of relevant/updated information you have related to identifying lowers.

Outside of that I think having a sticked AWB law thread for AR's only is relatively dumb, since "identifying a preban lower" is really the only unique artifact of the entire rifle, as it actually is possible to do that easily with certain brands. As far as the "flash hider muzzle brake bayonet lug" stuff goes, I think we are better off served with a full AWB faq for all that garbage. I'll flesh something out in the next day or two.

There are LOTS of other guns covered by the AWB. If it's not an "Is my AR compliant? guy, iit's an "some gun shop told me I couldn't buy this AK/AR/FAL/M1A/Uzi/Sig/whatever cuz I live in massachusetts and those are eeeelegal there" type stuff, too.

-Mike

 

[WargameHub]

I referenced the other thread for identifying ARs in my first post.

FAQ are the first things I check for. Im fine with one Faq for all the AWB stuff. Its just that it doesnt exist. Ive spent hours going through old posts and there is a lot of contradictions.

 

[chinalfr]

Yes. . For a while. No one stop shopping. Would you mind telling the rest of us why you are so against putting all the info in one place on NES?

Please don't take it as I'm against it. I'm not. Mike sums it up very well. You're welcome to ask question if you don't understand or maybe having doubt. Your intention is good, but not gear toward major audiences.

 

[jasons]

I referenced the other thread for identifying ARs in my first post.

FAQ are the first things I check for. Im fine with one Faq for all the AWB stuff. Its just that it doesnt exist. Ive spent hours going through old posts and there is a lot of contradictions.

Just read the law yourself. There are a million different opinions when it comes to AWB interpretation, that's why you see contradictions. You'd see the same thing in a sticky.

 

[WargameHub]

So the attitude here is "dont try to help because it doesnt matter"?

 

[jasons]

So the attitude here is "dont try to help because it doesnt matter"?

No, the attitude is "do your own research and form your own opinion" and I think that's a pretty good one personally. If you'd like to poll people for their opinion about some feature or something go ahead, but don't be surprised to see multiple and possibly conflicting opinions. With ambiguous laws the answers are not always black and white.

 

[WargameHub]

every day I see something that causes me to lose a little more faith in NES (like bad sellers). All I wanted to do was try to help the community as a whole.

With gun questions we cant get the answer from the AG, from LEOs, or from gun stores and there is pushback against a simple FAQ here.

I'm done with the thread, maybe someone else will do the AWB thread that needs to be done. If someone does that I would recommend that those who dont want to be helpful just shouldnt post.

 

[jasons]

I think you're assuming that a FAQ with simple black and white answers to questions is possible. I don't think it is. You can't have "facts" when the answers are opinions. Check out some of the existing threads (the ones you yourself say are contradictory.)

I'm not sure why you see this as a problem with NES. It's a problem with MA firearms laws in general. None of us like them.

For example, start a new thread asking how to pin the stock on a post-ban AR to make it compliant. You'll get opinions ranging from "use an nut and bolt" to "AWB guns are forever AWB guns and you can't just pin the stock to make it complaint." Neither of those extremes is clarified in the actual law - they are purely opinions.

 

[chinalfr]

every day I see something that causes me to lose a little more faith in NES (like bad sellers). All I wanted to do was try to help the community as a whole.

With gun questions we cant get the answer from the AG, from LEOs, or from gun stores and there is pushback against a simple FAQ here.

I'm done with the thread, maybe someone else will do the AWB thread that needs to be done. If someone does that I would recommend that those who dont want to be helpful just shouldnt post.

Huh, I'm lost? You loose faith on NES because you can't post your simple FAQ and dealing with bad sellers? Post it if you want to. No one regulate your first amendment right.

 

[drgrant]

No, the attitude is "do your own research and form your own opinion" and I think that's a pretty good one personally. If you'd like to poll people for their opinion about some feature or something go ahead, but don't be surprised to see multiple and possibly conflicting opinions. With ambiguous laws the answers are not always black and white.

Exactly....

When I am done with the FAQ there are going to be a lot of those "choose your own adventure" options for answers that go down their typical paths. The main purpose is to get as much information in one "can" as possible, but those looking for clean answers are still going to have to make up their own minds as to what they think is legally safe enough.

The AWB in MA is not what I would call "legally clean" and ultimately there isn't much way around that unless it gets taken off the books or a court renders all or parts of it legally void down the road.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

every day I see something that causes me to lose a little more faith in NES (like bad sellers). All I wanted to do was try to help the community as a whole.

With gun questions we cant get the answer from the AG, from LEOs, or from gun stores and there is pushback against a simple FAQ here.

'When I am done with it in a couple of days you will see why...... Even when it is done it will still not cover every eventuality. I am probably going to have to make the effing thing 4 posts long at least. Some people are not going to like some of the answers because there is literally no decisive answer in some cases- and these issues will still spawn threads here because it is human nature to ruminate about things that don't make any sense.

I'm done with the thread, maybe someone else will do the AWB thread that needs to be done. If someone does that I would recommend that those who dont want to be helpful just shouldnt post.

Once I post the MA AWB FAQ in the MA gun laws subforum it will be open for posting and commentary- any questions can be posted in that thread, or suggestions for things to add to the FAQ, etc.

-Mike

 

[Ryan9896]

every day I see something that causes me to lose a little more faith in NES (like bad sellers). All I wanted to do was try to help the community as a whole.

With gun questions we cant get the answer from the AG, from LEOs, or from gun stores and there is pushback against a simple FAQ here.

I'm done with the thread, maybe someone else will do the AWB thread that needs to be done. If someone does that I would recommend that those who dont want to be helpful just shouldnt post.

i understand your frustration, the extreme magnitude of opinion differences and law interpretation differences will cause some grief amongst people looking for straight forward answers. but really, there are no straight answers. something may be okay in one situation, but not okay in another. so many people THINK they know about certain things, but clearly don't. then you have the unavoidable "devil's advocate" author on every thread who will present certain situations or circumstances just to prove someone wrong. u must take everything here with a grain of salt and come to your own conclusion. read as much law and opinion you can, then go from there. every thread on this website has one thing in common....disagreement. no matter what the topic, question, advice, or situation may be, there will always be disagreement. it takes a strong thread to be deemed sticky material. almost all the answers to your questions presented are on this site somewhere. the mods have to control the overwhelming amount of double and triple posts where the same question is being asked, but by a different member or in different context. don't feel discouraged about being denied a sticky. a thread needs to be blessed by the pope and knighted in to be a sticky, it's very tough to justify a sticky.

 

[Romeosierra616]

Proper etiquette would dictate that a "Thanks for offering to help" should be in order, or even a "No, But thanks anyways". but instead he got polite "no one needs your help" responses.

Poor guy, No wonder he feels like he lost faith in this forum.

 

[drgrant]

Proper etiquette would dictate that a "Thanks for offering to help" should be in order, or even a "No, But thanks anyways". but instead he got polite "no one needs your help" responses.

Poor guy, No wonder he feels like he lost faith in this forum.

For whatever it is or isn't worth, Wargamehub and myself had a meaningful PM exchange about this issue, and I made a point of thanking him for bringing it to my attention- the things he is discussing is a glaring deficiency in the content we have in the legal subforum.

-Mike