Precision Long Range for SHTF

[CA139]

Curious as to what people of this mindset feel about precision rifle. I have a friend who thinks this is the bee's knees and that a few handy snipers could effect a change of power and dominate terrain and totally protect a community. Given how amazing snipers are in war on paper this sounds attractive but when faced with the prospect of a SHTF/survival situation the picture to me seems less rosy.

What I mean is that a sniper is a military force multiplier whose sole mission is to show up, lay prone with his nice rifle and optics engaging targets for which he has knowledge as well as previous intelligence at will. Someone in a position to survive has to take care of water, food and shelter as well as protecting his own to a degree a military combatant wouldn't have to. I can only imagine that traipsing around town in a ghillie suit with some fancy precision rifle and its optic could only attract negative attention. Never mind how it would be impossible to size up a threat at long range, what kind of difficulty you'd find yourself to prove self defense for a shot taken at those distances and how it could alert the world at large to your presence as a prepared person or place to rob.

My feeling is that the simpler (and maybe quieter) and lower key weaponry the better. I think that with your chances of surviving are the opposite that they are in wartime: going up as your engagement range shrinks as in fighting only when cornered without alternative. If one really were into the survivalist mindset I would imagine that blending in and staying out of the way would be preferable and the best combat tactic would be to avoid a fight at all costs instead of starting one by engaging willy nilly at long range.

Thoughts?

 

[76Too]

Nothing made by Ruger.

 

[mibro]

In the worst case scenario, grid down, total anarchy, I think your friend is right. Be prepared to dig lots of (hiding) holes, move only at night with night vision and avoid all close quarters combat.

Even the Pentagon thinks 90% of us will be dead in 12 months in that scenario.

Having said that, it will never happen.

 

[Archilochus]

... the best combat tactic would be to avoid a fight at all costs instead of starting one by engaging willy nilly at long range.?

That's always a good plan, no matter what the situation. It's too bad most governments don't follow it.

That being said, if one wants a complete SHTF assortment of weapons, something with reasonably long range can't hurt. Of course true long range stuff requires a ton of practice.

Also, in many areas there's almost no real "need" for anything over ~100 yards. Out in the woods here you'd be lucky to even be able to see that far through your scope.

 

[boatman]

.22/BB gun. Rabbits, squirrels, etc. Lifestraw. Lots of rice/beans/pasta/pnut butter. You want to stay alive. If you watch too many movies, Red Dawn, etc., then you want a sniper rifle. Most people just want a warm place to live and full belly.

 

[Jason m]

Best to invest your time into land and a means to get there, something remote enough away where yes you have to worry about your cache but not enough to worry about long range defense.
Not saying having a tool to reach out and touch someone or something ( deer, bear, other ) is not a option, just don't put much thought into it, a simple Rem700 with even a mildly good optic will do what your asking.

 

[CA139]

So far this is what I have been thinking. In a SHTF situation one's health and physicality make it less likely you could actually be accurate at those ranges. It would be a real problem to have to snipe down everything that comes into your perimeter when mostly they could just be headed in your general direction and passing by; you'd turn into the very thing you're trying to protect yourself from. Imagine unwittingly sniping a FEMA agent that is possibly there to help you, what kind of cluster**** that would unleash on you and your community or group.

The time and money spent, and complexities as range gets longer in order to score consistent hits are insane. You have to go all the way to even tying a string with a weight to a protractor and using that to measure your shot angle to your target. So many things that could go wrong any one of which render your weapons system useless for the intended purpose, so many things to spend time and money on that could give you more benefit elsewhere.

Agreed, almost all centerfire rifles with a mildly decent optic would do regardless of caliber.

 

[xtry51]

If you want to shoot long range and have one shot effective fire, you're going to need to invest some serious time/money into practice and training.

Any AR platform and good quality ammo. Federal gold match or Black hills. Hand loads if you reload. Then go shoot thousands of rounds at 100-300 to build confidence. After that take a 600 yard class and get a dope chart made.

I just took a class at Ridgeline and it was worth every penny. I was good out to 600, but practice like that versus firing what could be a gunfight starting bullet at a real target is a decision holding your life in your hands. Once you lob that first shot it's a two way range and theres not much beyond paintball/airsoft/sims you can do to prep yourself mentally for that aspect.

It comes down to training, not your gear. Pick gear. Go train with it and learn its limitations while in your hands.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

If, when the SHTF, Little Jack will be on the Tommy and I'll be behind him loading mags. Jack.

 

[Knob Creek]

Get a copy of Boston's Gun Bible.

 

[nordic alien]

If, when the SHTF, Little Jack will be on the Tommy and I'll be behind him loading mags. Jack.

loaded match grade m1a all the way with a high quality no less than 3x9 scope; any way you look at it a decent precision rifle good for 1000 yards or more is going to cost $$$$

 

[EC1]

So far this is what I have been thinking. In a SHTF situation one's health and physicality make it less likely you could actually be accurate at those ranges. It would be a real problem to have to snipe down everything that comes into your perimeter when mostly they could just be headed in your general direction and passing by; you'd turn into the very thing you're trying to protect yourself from. Imagine unwittingly sniping a FEMA agent that is possibly there to help you, what kind of cluster**** that would unleash on you and your community or group.

The time and money spent, and complexities as range gets longer in order to score consistent hits are insane. You have to go all the way to even tying a string with a weight to a protractor and using that to measure your shot angle to your target. So many things that could go wrong any one of which render your weapons system useless for the intended purpose, so many things to spend time and money on that could give you more benefit elsewhere.

Agreed, almost all centerfire rifles with a mildly decent optic would do regardless of caliber.

In a shtf situation it's difficult to imagine that some one from the .gov would be there to help you, especially if they're from fema.

 

[Archilochus]

In a shtf situation it's difficult to imagine that some one from the .gov would be there to help you, especially if they're from fema.

I was thinking the same thing there. But as far as randomly just picking off anyone you can see at 600 yards or so, that's pretty foolish. Odds are they're just going about their business and pose no threat (until someone starts shooting at them anyway).

 

[PatMcD]

I was thinking the same thing there. But as far as randomly just picking off anyone you can see at 600 yards or so, that's pretty foolish. Odds are they're just going about their business and pose no threat (until someone starts shooting at them anyway).

That's my thought as well. What can be gained by murdering people at long range in these stupid SHTF situations?
Unless of course, you plan on eating them.

 

[TheMick]

Blue helmets and white vehicles

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Blue helmets and white vehicles

Well there is that.
The most obvious choice is 308. Accurate, powerful, and can be acquired from people wearing blue helmets so the supply is almost limitless. Besides once someone starts shooting at people in blue helmets, life expectancy drops very rapidly.

 

[Christian]

Concentric rings of daisy chained claymores should be everyone's go to plan. Nothing says stay away like bits of everything that once lived having wandered into the zone of death being now, dead and in bits. A wasteland from your perimeter pushed out to 200 meters sends quite the message.

Of course being where I am on the south shore my neighbors are well within 200 meters so it kind of puts the kybosh on that plan.

 

[1776]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKFsmZhQWtg

 

[AHM]

Concentric rings of daisy chained claymores should be everyone's go to plan.

Dude!

Of course being where I am on the south shore my neighbors are well within 200 meters so it kind of puts the kybosh on that plan

Go big, or leave home.

<Waterworld (1/10) Movie CLIP - Revenge at Sea (1995) HD>

I Was Not Told that Fishtar was the funniest thing for yachtsmen
this side of Captain Ron,
the hardtack scene from Master and Commander,
and That Viagra Ad.

Wait'll the crew hears this...

 

[Deleted member 67409]

.22/BB gun. Rabbits, squirrels, etc. Lifestraw. Lots of rice/beans/pasta/pnut butter. You want to stay alive. If you watch too many movies, Red Dawn, etc., then you want a sniper rifle. Most people just want a warm place to live and full belly.

Just don't only eat small game or you'll be dying. Or humans, @PatMcD

Protein poisoning - Wikipedia

...

OP, put your friend at a 200+ yard range and see how well he hits targets out to 1000 yards.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

"Grid infrastructure"

 

[AHM]

Just don't only eat small game or you'll be dying. Or humans, @PatMcD

Protein poisoning - Wikipedia

That's a rather tender subject.

You can't just wander the fields and live off of corn, either.
To use it as a staple,
you have to treat it right to avoid pellagra.

 

[JayMcB]

Sniper rifle......so.....a bolt gun.
Pick a caliber.... .308? 6.5 creedmore? 300 Win mag?
Then pick a rifle. Then an optic, then a spotting scope, then buy a shit ton of ammo to store ahead, then go train and shoot the shit out of it.

As far as 'precision long range shooting'....who, exactly wants to do shitty long range shooting?

 

[Andy in NH]

While their actions were appalling and horrific, the tactics of the DC snipers were noteworthy; they cut a hole in the back of the trunk of their car to fire from.
A similar firing position could be constructed in the bed of an innocuous truck with a cap on the bed.
Positioned in the right area, a long range marksman could do some good work in a SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, WROL situation.
Just saying...

 

[June4th]

Unless you are in a organized force-on-force scenario (clanB assaulting your clanA in fire teams, Red Dawn or FBI HRT on your ass), shooting anyone beyond 200 yards is not gonna happen.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Just don't only eat small game or you'll be dying. Or humans, @PatMcD

Protein poisoning - Wikipedia

...

OP, put your friend at a 200+ yard range and see how well he hits targets out to 1000 yards.

Did you happen to notice the fat on the rabbit in the pic on Wikipedia? The only time mammals, including small game, have 0% fat is when they also are starving.
Glad to see Wikipedia perpetuating old wives tales.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Did you happen to notice the fat on the rabbit in the pic on Wikipedia? The only time mammals, including small game, have 0% fat is when they also are starving.
Glad to see Wikipedia perpetuating old wives tales.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the rabbit shown in the link was farm raised and consequently a bit fatter than something you'd find running around in the woods in winter.

A review of issues of dietary protein intake in humans. - PubMed - NCBI

What Is Protein Poisoning? | Livestrong.com

Protein Poisoning: Definition and Symptoms

 

[fencer]

The best use for a scoped rifle in the scenario mentioned would be the humane harvesting of game. Every guy that went through boot can hit a man sized target at 500 yards, with simple iron sights. At that range, the front sight blocks out the target completely, but you can still hit it.
I would never take a shot at a game animal further out than say 150 yards without a scope. Yeah, you can hit it, but it would be hard to get a clean heart/lung shot without magnification. Of course, if faced with starvation, I would dump a 30 round mag into Bambi, and not really give a shit. You would be spitting out 5.56 like watermelon seeds, and you wouldn't care one bit.
Long range rifle shots are most effective against an enemy with limited resources. If an opposing force has the resources, they are just going to obliterate everything in your general area with mortars, artillery or an air strike. I am not saying that a long range shot is never the best option, but usually avoiding contact would be.
A good scoped rifle is a valuable tool, but a decent AR will probably be more useful and is much more capable than most people think.

 

[CA139]

I agreed with 100% of the posts so far on here. Yes my friend is a decent marksman and shoots out to 200 yards which is as far as anyone has access to around here. I shoot his guns better than he does though and I don't bother with any of that bipod, reloading, stock-pad, cheek weld, expensive scope, ballistics calculation baloney. Other than basic fundamentals almost all guns, pistol cartridges included, are so capable within 200 yards that ballistics can pretty much be ignored and you're still hitting pie plate sized targets, especially with any optic.

I think my good friend is watching too many videos online of these half crazy people who are trying to sell their own long range classes "TO SURVIVE RED DAWN/MAD MAX" (a` la Tyborosaurus Rex etc) and has mistaken survival with becoming an active combatant. Two hugely different things because military forces have a huge backbone making sure they stay well fed and supplied and ready to kill people and break things whereas a survivalist in SHTF their main objective is to stay alive, warm and well fed. Given the outlay of resources and how this sniper craziness puts you in harm's way it is patently obvious the two are mutually exclusive. I just wanted to reach out and see what a community of like minded people thought although if you review books, blogs and experts in the field the consensus is that the best rule of engagement is to avoid conflict at all costs and HIDE. Cover, concealment secrecy, staying out of the way and general OPSEC are the best defense as well as knowing and being in touch with and together with many trusted people who are well supplied, trained and have good attitudes before hand is the number one predictor of survival.

And yes I do own most of the calibers mentioned and shoot the cheapest possible ammo (love 7.62 NATO brass milsurp at 35 cents a round in bulk). It's more accurate than I know what to do with at 200 yards with a cheap scope.

Regarding rabbits yes rabbit starvation is a thing. It's from not enough fat in your diet. Rabbits are low fat. You need some bacon or olive oil too in your diet. Have cheese like MRE's.

 

[xtry51]

If you eat rabbits for survival, you need to eat the marrow, brain and organs. That's where the fat is. Just eating the "meat" because you're queasy is what causes rabbit starvation.