Prefered AR Manufacturer? Cheaper to Bling

[Mesatchornug]

Spend less on the AR and more on training?

Nah, safe queen.

PSA and $2K in ammo and classes? That's crazy talk.

 

[Spartan65]

PSA and $2K in ammo and classes? That's crazy talk.

Poverty pony and tactical rifle training?

The funny part is that you are more likely to be picked on with a $3000 rifle you don’t know how to run than you are with a $500 build. Don’t be that guy in class

 

[paul73]

Poverty pony and tactical rifle training?

The funny part is that you are more likely to be picked on with a $3000 rifle you don’t know how to run than you are with a $500 build. Don’t be that guy in class

PSA uppers can be crap. You may get a perfectly fine one, or may not, and it will never shoot right. A first time user will not be able to identify such an issue.

To me whole problem here is beyond comprehension. Midway and YouTube has tons of videos on how to build an AR from scratch. Or how to connect a complete upper with a complete lower, for true brainiacs.

I sent a link for LaRue upper - it’s value is in its matching parts that are guaranteed to work very well. Can’t beat that quality at that price.

 

[jaymce]

I would say LMT but it looks like they have moved up in the rating scale and price point. Glad I grabbed mine in the 90s. At the time i went with them as they were (as far as I could tell) 1 of 2 (colt being the 2nd) to make rifles for the military. At the time LMT was not yet selling complete rifles so you ordered a configured lower, chose a BCG and an upper (less handguard) then added your own accessories from the secondary market.

Guess if I had to make the choice now I'd be looking at Colt as I would be priced out of LMT.

I'd do some research on some sites more dedicated to AR platform maybe there is a manufacturer similar to what LMT turned out to be for me.

 

[Admin]

He's a Navy guy so he's probably shot a rifle once at 50 yards. He's probably only going to put 500 rounds through it a year, that would be my complete generalizing guess. Order a complete PSA lower, throw in a RRA two varmint trigger and mate it with the Larue match grade upper.

$159 https://palmettostatearmory.com/bla...r15-complete-moe-ept-stealth-lower-black.html
$749 https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper/
$80 Rock River Arms Two-Stage Varmint Match Trigger (3.5 Pound Varmint Version)

$988 for a blaster that will shoot under 1 MOA.

He's not gonna know what optic to get, everybody likes something different. Since he's a Navy guy something nice like a Tasco or Barska should suit him fine.

 

[Admin]

You guys saying LMT, PWS, etc. That is like sitting at a party with your cigar friends smoking $50 cubans when the drunk liberal wobbles up to the group on the patio and asks if he can smoke a cigar too "I've never smoked one before I just smoke grass..." If you hand him anything other than a throat burning backwoods weed stick you're retarded.

 

[Mesatchornug]

He's a Navy guy so he's probably shot a rifle once at 50 yards. He's probably only going to put 500 rounds through it a year, that would be my complete generalizing guess. Order a complete PSA lower, throw in a RRA two varmint trigger and mate it with the Larue match grade upper.

$159 https://palmettostatearmory.com/bla...r15-complete-moe-ept-stealth-lower-black.html
$749 https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper/
$80 Rock River Arms Two-Stage Varmint Match Trigger (3.5 Pound Varmint Version)

$988 for a blaster that will shoot under 1 MOA.

He's not gonna know what optic to get, everybody likes something different. Since he's a Navy guy something nice like a Tasco or Barska should suit him fine.

 

[Mountain]

It’s a huge price gap between assembling an AR, even a top level one, or buying a brand name completely assembled one.

I am not a fan of any latter ones, even if I can appreciate H&K products, but, the premium it demands is rather insane compared to LaRue or Noveske uppers on an aero lower.

Everything now is very expensive in a top segment anywayView attachment 639467

They are not in stock anymore and it is not clear when they will be back. But a best bang per buck are LaRue complete uppers, with their properly lapped barrel in their upper with their bolt.
Lower really does not matter that much, all critical accuracy is in the upper.

For reliable mid tier primary arms always sells aero complete uppers in all possible configurations.

Nice list. They forgot JP, which is a solid A-tier product and possibly S-tier. LOL S-tier could also be P for poseur. RRA and Spikes belong in B-tier, Faxon absolutely is a C-tier. Honestly, Anderson is a C-tier price but IMHO B-tier reliability and for sure should bump Faxon out of B-tier.

 

[paul73]

Nice list. They forgot JP, which is a solid A-tier product and possibly S-tier. LOL S-tier could also be P for poseur. RRA and Spikes belong in B-tier, Faxon absolutely is a C-tier. Honestly, Anderson is a C-tier price but IMHO B-tier reliability and for sure should bump Faxon out of B-tier.

Last faxon 308 barrel I had was not very impressive, I must say. A $50 cheaper ballistic advantage seems to be performing way better. Overall, yes.

 

[PappyM3]

Rather than go over different tiers, I’d say it would be simplest to just pick up a Colt, FN Tac3, or BCM lower & upper. None are the cheapest, but they’ll work. SOLGW may be fine too but I’ve never used one. Another possible option, if it were in stock, is Ripcord Industries. They use criterion barrels which is nice. Their handguards are beefy though… which is both a positive and a negative.

KAC, LMT, or Daniel Defense wouldn’t be bad choices if he doesn’t mind spending money, but I think LMTs are too heavy and he’s not going to find a KAC.

Radian, PWS, Cobalt Kinetics.. all seem more Gucci than utility to me, but I’m sure they’re fine.

Just avoid Triarc. I liked their products, but they have mismanaged things terribly and people are still waiting on 15+ months for their rifles.

You guys saying LMT, PWS, etc. That is like sitting at a party with your cigar friends smoking $50 cubans when the drunk liberal wobbles up to the group on the patio and asks if he can smoke a cigar too "I've never smoked one before I just smoke grass..." If you hand him anything other than a throat burning backwoods weed stick you're retarded.

Except a cigar isn’t something that he could potentially have for years that he could grow into without worrying about wasting money to swap it out later.

 

[paul73]

You guys saying LMT, PWS, etc. That is like sitting at a party with your cigar friends smoking $50 cubans when the drunk liberal wobbles up to the group on the patio and asks if he can smoke a cigar too "I've never smoked one before I just smoke grass..." If you hand him anything other than a throat burning backwoods weed stick you're retarded.

Cafe creme for the rescue.

 

[Mountain]

Last faxon 308 barrel I had was not very impressive, I must say. A $50 cheaper ballistic advantage seems to be performing way better. Overall, yes.

BA subcontracts for some of the highest end manufacturers. That premium series barrel I used for the 6.5 Manbun build is a 1/2 MOA barrel all day long.

For a buy one ready to go at a reasonable price- Windham.

www.windhamweaponry.com

The Windham Weaponry Story…​

A team of the finest firearms manufacturers in the U.S.A. has been re-assembled to bring to market the highest quality AR type rifle possible. These good Maine folks – most of whom are former employees of Bushmaster Firearms – offer many years of experience in the industry, and all look forward to working with you, to serving your needs, and to building you a great rifle.

When the people who bought Bushmaster in 2006 decided to move it “lock, stock and barrel” out of Maine to New York in 2011, the original Bushmaster owner, Mr. Richard Dyke was left with both a dilemma and an opportunity. Almost to the day of the 2011 move, Mr. Dyke’s non-compete clause expired. He still owned the property where Bushmaster had been built, and knew all the workers – now laid off – who had helped him build it. He made a decision to “get back in the game” and promptly put an email out to many of his former employees and friends asking if there was interest in joining him for a new project.

With a resounding “yes” of support, he gathered the financing in two days, and started bringing people back into their long-time Windham manufacturing home. Phoenix-like, Windham Weaponry was on the rise. Within three months, the first productions models of the new Windham Weaponry line had been perfected and delivered. Quality, fit, finish, durability, accuracy and value were all superb – giving credence to Windham Weaponry’s motto “The Quality Goes In, Before The Rifle Goes Out”.

The firearms industry and consumers welcomed this new effort warmly, old friends and contacts were re-established, and sales grew. In less than a year and a half, Windham Weaponry had brought back almost 70 employees, benchmarked impressive sales numbers, and established their name as one of the pre-eminent firearms manufacturers in the country.

The press heralded it as “truly an American success story”, and all due to the vision of its founder. Further growth for Windham Weaponry has already been planned and implemented.

 

[JenkkiMike]

I spent so much time researching ARs and the more I read, the more confused I was. There are just so many options, configurations, and manufacturers. I'm an AK guy and it's pretty easy to figure out which AKs are worthwhile and which to avoid, but ARs are like uncharted territory for me. I don't own any ARs except for a dedicated .22LR suppressed backyard blaster. I've had the idea in my head to get one, quality AR in 5.56 for quite a while and finally pulled the trigger on one yesterday when I saw this DD MKIV SOCOM stripped upper for sale at Brownell's. There's a coupon code to knock $120 off $1k too which brought it down to $753.

M4A1 STRIPPED SOCOM UPPER RECEIVER 14.5IN 5.56 | Brownells

The Daniel Defense M4A1 SOCOM Block II Upper Receiver has been designed for those looking to match the specs and performance on the M4A1 SOCOM Block II carbines used by troops during Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom. The Daniel Defens...

www.brownells.com

 

[92G]

the OP’s “friend” sounds like the type who will spend 15 minutes rubbing the rifle then put it in a safe or closet forever. In this case buy whatever looks nice. If he wants to learn, he should just buy a matching upper lower and built the rifle.

 

[paul73]

I spent so much time researching ARs and the more I read, the more confused I was. There are just so many options, configurations, and manufacturers. I'm an AK guy and it's pretty easy to figure out which AKs are worthwhile and which to avoid, but ARs are like uncharted territory for me. I don't own any ARs except for a dedicated .22LR suppressed backyard blaster. I've had the idea in my head to get one, quality AR in 5.56 for quite a while and finally pulled the trigger on one yesterday when I saw this DD MKIV SOCOM stripped upper for sale at Brownell's. There's a coupon code to knock $120 off $1k too which brought it down to $753.

M4A1 STRIPPED SOCOM UPPER RECEIVER 14.5IN 5.56 | Brownells

The Daniel Defense M4A1 SOCOM Block II Upper Receiver has been designed for those looking to match the specs and performance on the M4A1 SOCOM Block II carbines used by troops during Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom. The Daniel Defens...

www.brownells.com

i said it somewhere above. the real bang per buck is when you get a complete upper from a reputable manufacturer. if you get a DD build - make sure it has their bolt. they make those parts match _properly_. means headspace will be optimal, movements will be optimal and the upper will shoot like a dream.

getting a stripped upper like in that link will force you to use some other bolt, which negates the point of overpaing for a DD build, as an aero build with BA barrel at $500 level would do the same same well.

 

[JenkkiMike]

i said it somewhere above. the real bang per buck is when you get a complete upper from a reputable manufacturer. if you get a DD build - make sure it has their bolt. they make those parts match _properly_. means headspace will be optimal, movements will be optimal and the upper will shoot like a dream.

getting a stripped upper like in that link will force you to use some other bolt, which negates the point of overpaing for a DD build, as an aero build with BA barrel at $500 level would do the same same well.

What exactly are they doing with the bolt to make it match properly? I bought a DD BCG to go with it. Unfortunately this particular configuration is only offered stripped with the SOCOM barrel. The DD complete M4A1 uppers come with Govt. profile barrels.

 

[paul73]

What exactly are they doing with the bolt to make it match properly? I bought a DD BCG to go with it. Unfortunately this particular configuration is only offered stripped with the SOCOM barrel. The DD complete M4A1 uppers come with Govt. profile barrels.

getting DD bolt was a good idea. they are not _doing_ much, per se, it is just all about manufacturing tolerances and dimensions of the final product.
a DD bolt in the matching DD upper, with a DD barrel installed by DD - guarantees a DD performance. same with larue.
an PSA bolt in an anderson upper with a BA barrel - who knows what it is in there and what headspace you`ve got. it may shoot ok/well, or it may not.
and if not - you need headspace gauges, you need to take barrel out, have lapping tool, set barrel properly, try different bolts, etc. may work or may not, if upper itself was not warped from the beginning.
going with all aero parts is usually less problematic as they maintain tolerances rather ok, compared to cheaper lower tier brands.

and of course all that bullshit only matters to those who expect their rifles to shoot like a rifle should - in a dime or quarter sized groups at 100yds. if a 3 or 4 inch group at a 100 is considered acceptable - then a bear creek build will do that just fine as well, i think i saw on a last primaryarms sale some complete uppers at $280 level or so.

 

[Uzi2]

There is no gun market filled with more bullshit marketing hype and price variances than that of the AR15.

Have your friend buy what he can afford, buy 2 or 3 cases of good ammo and learn how to shoot and maintain his rifle.

 

[JenkkiMike]

getting DD bolt was a good idea. they are not _doing_ much, per se, it is just all about manufacturing tolerances and dimensions of the final product.
a DD bolt in the matching DD upper, with a DD barrel installed by DD - guarantees a DD performance. same with larue.
an PSA bolt in an anderson upper with a BA barrel - who knows what it is in there and what headspace you`ve got. it may shoot ok/well, or it may not.

Sounds like it should work out ok for me then. Like I said initially, I was overwhelmed with information and choices when it came to ARs and just decided to go for it before overthinking it too much.

 

[paul73]

Sounds like it should work out ok for me then. Like I said initially, I was overwhelmed with information and choices when it came to ARs and just decided to go for it before overthinking it too much.

why not - it will. just remember the 1:7 twist and get ammo accordingly.

 

[Grendizer138]

$600 AR-15.

 

[mav]

getting DD bolt was a good idea. they are not _doing_ much, per se, it is just all about manufacturing tolerances and dimensions of the final product.
a DD bolt in the matching DD upper, with a DD barrel installed by DD - guarantees a DD performance. same with larue.
an PSA bolt in an anderson upper with a BA barrel - who knows what it is in there and what headspace you`ve got. it may shoot ok/well, or it may not.
and if not - you need headspace gauges, you need to take barrel out, have lapping tool, set barrel properly, try different bolts, etc. may work or may not, if upper itself was not warped from the beginning.
going with all aero parts is usually less problematic as they maintain tolerances rather ok, compared to cheaper lower tier brands.

and of course all that bullshit only matters to those who expect their rifles to shoot like a rifle should - in a dime or quarter sized groups at 100yds. if a 3 or 4 inch group at a 100 is considered acceptable - then a bear creek build will do that just fine as well, i think i saw on a last primaryarms sale some complete uppers at $280 level or so.

For new AR enthusiasts, this right here is why you don't build your first AR as a mutt, you either buy the complete rifle or worst case a complete upper. Dealing with headspace issues because you skinflinted on the BCG and Upper and went with different manufacturers or a low-tier manufacturer is how you end up with issues.

Want to skinflint? Do it on the lower. But for love of all that is holy, don't go mismatching uppers and BCG's (when you don't know what you're doing). Just because it says mil-spec doesn't mean it's all just plug and play, especially with some of the cheaper brands and certainly with the Gucci custom ones. Should it work? Sure. Will it work? Meh is not the answer you want when dealing with firearms.

 

[Uzi2]

For new AR enthusiasts, this right here is why you don't build your first AR as a mutt, you either buy the complete rifle or worst case a complete upper. Dealing with headspace issues because you skinflinted on the BCG and Upper and went with different manufacturers or a low-tier manufacturer is how you end up with issues.

Want to skinflint? Do it on the lower. But for love of all that is holy, don't go mismatching uppers and BCG's. Just because it says mil-spec doesn't mean it's all just plug and play, especially with some of the cheaper brands and certainly with the Gucci custom ones. Should it work? Sure. Will it work? Meh is not the answer you want when dealing with firearms.

I find it more than amazing that I have not run into that problem in 52 MUTT builds.

 

[mav]

I find it more than amazing that I have not run into that problem in 52 MUTT builds.

The fact that you have 52 Mutt builds tells me you aren't a novice/noob AR enthusiast. From a statistical standpoint, you may just be a lucky SOB, especially on the first few builds. Or maybe you went with decent manufacturers for your components and knew how to build/test appropriately.

Having 52 AR's does indicate you may have other issues

 

[paul73]

For new AR enthusiasts, this right here is why you don't build your first AR as a mutt, you either buy the complete rifle or worst case a complete upper. Dealing with headspace issues because you skinflinted on the BCG and Upper and went with different manufacturers or a low-tier manufacturer is how you end up with issues.

Want to skinflint? Do it on the lower. But for love of all that is holy, don't go mismatching uppers and BCG's (when you don't know what you're doing). Just because it says mil-spec doesn't mean it's all just plug and play, especially with some of the cheaper brands and certainly with the Gucci custom ones. Should it work? Sure. Will it work? Meh is not the answer you want when dealing with firearms.

yeah. and, as i just like pictures - here is a 20" stealth larue groups - first one is on cold barrel, next is hot after around of 90 rounds fired. batch loads, so es/sd is shit.
one that went to the left is my flinch, rest 4 are dead on. that is what the S tier is about...
but, to be fair - as some can remember from my posts - even that larue needed some work mid-way to fix the issues with groupings that arised, i had to re-seat the barrel.

 

[paul73]

I find it more than amazing that I have not run into that problem in 52 MUTT builds.

if they all shoot like what i`ve shown above - it is great. sometimes it happens.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! My buddy got back to me last night and is trying to stay around $800-$900 or so for this AR. He's not a huge gun guy so I'll probably stay away from a build and go with an off the shelf built gun recommendation for him. As @Mountain recommended I'm liking the Windham Weaponry offerings in this price range. It comes very highly reviewed by the typical gun rags, which is a positive.

Does anyone see an issue with recommending this particular rifle from them?



SRC-MID - Windham Weaponry Online. AR-15 Manufacturer

the OP’s “friend” sounds like the type who will spend 15 minutes rubbing the rifle then put it in a safe or closet forever. In this case buy whatever looks nice. If he wants to learn, he should just buy a matching upper lower and built the rifle.

No sure what you're trying to say by "Friend". He's a Navy brother and we're close so I want to give him some good advice here. As to what he does with it once he's got it, don't really care. He's not the biggest gun guy and this will be his first rifle that will go with his small collection of handguns.

 

[jkelly1229]

Bout to say the 14.5 with their break... throw in a flat 3.5 trigger

So not a fully traditional AR, but I really like my PWS MK 111. It's a great product, fit, finish and function are all top notch and they have fantastic customer service. Obviously at 12" its a NFA specimen. The non NFA flavors are great as well. Pricing is not crazy either, well in a normal market anyway. The negative is the gas system and the BCG are propitiatory.

What does he want it for? Does he want to shoot CMP or Highpower? Just a blaster and home defense?



View: https://youtu.be/h5vGJDq2yV8


View: https://youtu.be/cOLNFRobm0c

Brittany (customer service) and Joey (build - repair dept) Both are active on facebook and respond directly to customers in the PWS owners group/.

 

[Uzi2]

The fact that you have 52 Mutt builds tells me you aren't a novice/noob AR enthusiast. From a statistical standpoint, you may just be a lucky SOB, especially on the first few builds. Or maybe you went with decent manufacturers for your components and knew how to build/test appropriately.

Having 52 AR's does indicate you may have other issues
View attachment 639696

Issues?


Issues?

Issues?

Really??

 

[paul73]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! My buddy got back to me last night and is trying to stay around $800-$900 or so for this AR. He's not a huge gun guy so I'll probably stay away from a build and go with an off the shelf built gun recommendation for him. As @Mountain recommended I'm liking the Windham Weaponry offerings in this price range. It comes very highly reviewed by the typical gun rags, which is a positive.

Does anyone see an issue with recommending this particular rifle from them?

View attachment 639706

SRC-MID - Windham Weaponry Online. AR-15 Manufacturer



No sure what you're trying to say by "Friend". He's a Navy brother and we're close so I want to give him some good advice here. As to what he does with it once he's got it, don't really care. He's not the biggest gun guy and this will be his first rifle that will go with his small collection of handguns.

it is just fine.
i would look at this

Superlight - Windham Weaponry Online. AR-15 Manufacturer

Windham Weaponry Superlight SKU: R16SLSFSM Caliber: 223 Remington/5.56 NATO Action: Semi-Automatic, Gas Impingement System Capacity: 30 + 1 - Ships with one 30 Round Magazine Safety: Manual Lever with Indicator Markings on Both Sides of Receiver Receiver: Flat Top Type Upper Receiver...

www.windhamweaponry.com

or that

CDI - Windham Weaponry Online. AR-15 Manufacturer

Windham Weaponry "CDI" Model: R16M4SFSCT Caliber: .223 Rem. / 5.56mm NATO Type: Rifle Action: Semi-Automatic, Gas Impingement System Capacity: 30 + 1- Ships with one 30 Round Magazine (accepts all std. sizes) Safety: Manual Lever with Indicator Markings on Both Sides of Receiver...

www.windhamweaponry.com

if i would be buying a windham, probably. what i do not like - none of those offer an option for a suppressor mount brakes, it seems, and especially on a superlight version a can would be a very nice thing to have - as it is alabama.

their 10th anniversary one is also fine, but, looks too blingy to me. but he may like it, if it is going to be one and only thing.