pump shotgun question

[b79holmes]

I only handled a 870 once and hadn't known about the bolt unlock button.
Do all pumps have this feature?

As it locks unloaded, can you then load the magazine keeping the chamber empty and have to be able to unlock & cycle the forearm to chamber a shell?

Yes I see there could be some safety concerns keeping it condition 3 and I suppose some people keep one in condition 1.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[hminsky]

I think I recall someone saying that the 870 is not drop safe, if there is a shell in the chamber and you drop it, it might fire.

 

[xxmc]

I have the 870, On other pumps I have fired, they also had this feture. The other shotgun was a winchester

 

[jar]

Yes, I think all pumps have this. I know my Mossberg 500 does. For me, fighting shotguns are stored 'cruiser ready': action closed on an empty chamber, hammer dropped, safety off, full tube. That way, all you have to do to make it ready to fire is pump it. No fumbling with the safety or action release.

 

[M1911]

I think I recall someone saying that the 870 is not drop safe, if there is a shell in the chamber and you drop it, it might fire.

Very, very few long guns are drop safe. Very, very few long guns have a firing pin safety. That is, the safety keeps the hammer or striker from falling, but does not keep the firing pin from moving. Furthermore, the firing pin on most long guns is far heavier than the firing pin on a pistol.

So many people are aghast at the cocked hammer of a 1911, but don't have any concern about a rifle or a shotgun...

 

[45collector]

Yes, I think all pumps have this. I know my Mossberg 500 does. For me, fighting shotguns are stored 'cruiser ready': action closed on an empty chamber, hammer dropped, safety off, full tube. That way, all you have to do to make it ready to fire is pump it. No fumbling with the safety or action release.

Very, very few long guns are drop safe. Very, very few long guns have a firing pin safety. That is, the safety keeps the hammer or striker from falling, but does not keep the firing pin from moving. Furthermore, the firing pin on most long guns is far heavier than the firing pin on a pistol.

So many people are aghast at the cocked hammer of a 1911, but don't have any concern about a rifle or a shotgun...

+1 what these guys said!

Every pump shotgun I've seen has a bolt release button.

I used to have an old Montgomery Ward 12 gauge that if you held the trigger back and racked the action, a round would fire each time you slammed it back to full battery. Wicked fun! (not very safe though)

 

[FPrice]

I only handled a 870 once and hadn't known about the bolt unlock button.
Do all pumps have this feature?

Thanks,
Bill

I am not the most experienced shotgunner but all of the pump SGs I have handled have this feature. It is most likely a safety feature since without it the only way to unload a loaded SG would be to fire the round which is in the chamber - not always the most practical unloading method.

 

[45collector]

- not always the most practical unloading method.

But certainly the most fun!!

 

[vellnueve]

I am not the most experienced shotgunner but all of the pump SGs I have handled have this feature. It is most likely a safety feature since without it the only way to unload a loaded SG would be to fire the round which is in the chamber - not always the most practical unloading method.

Either that or remove the barrel... also a bit of an annoyance...

 

[RKG]

The purpose of locking the slide when the bolt is closed with a cocked hammer is to prevent a potentially very dangerous out-of-battery ignition. This is a problem (in theory) with a pump because you have a natural tendency to apply some rearward pressure on the slide as you shoulder the weapon and make up your sight picture.

I suppose there is one out there someplace, but I've never seen a pump that didn't have this lock. On older Winchesters, the slide lock was integral with the hammer; the only way to open the bolt was to thumb the hammer down.

The potential for a drop-fire (technically an "inertia fire") is strongly affected (if not entirely controlled) by the presence or absence of a firing pin spring. A firing pin would have to be really heavy to overcome a pin retraction spring as the result of a drop from, say, three or four feet.

Most military long guns do not have a firing pin spring (e.g., M1, M14, M1 Carbine, AR-15). An awful lot of commercial guns do. So far as I am aware, the 870 has a firing pin retraction spring.

 

[M1911]

The potential for a drop-fire (technically an "inertia fire") is strongly affected (if not entirely controlled) by the presence or absence of a firing pin spring. A firing pin would have to be really heavy to overcome a pin retraction spring as the result of a drop from, say, three or four feet.

It certainly helps quite a bit, but doesn't eliminate the risk.

1911s have a firing pin retaining spring, along with an inertial firing pin. Nevertheless, 1911s without firing pin safeties (pre Series 80 Colts, Series I Kimbers, Springfield Armory, Wilson Combat, etc.) have been known to discharge when dropped. Which is why many handguns have firing pin retaining springs that prevent the firing pin from moving unless the trigger is held to the rear. And also why companies sell extra strength firing pin retaining springs.

The firing pins of rifles and shotguns are typically larger and heavier than the firing pin on a 1911. So they have more inertia. Which means (all other things being equal, which, of course, they are not), they might be more likely to discharge when dropped -- clearly that would be a function, as well, of the relative strengths of the firing pin retaining springs.

 

[b79holmes]

thanks

jkg and JAR have answered my questions.
Thanks,
Bill

 

[Altezza]

T
Most military long guns do not have a firing pin spring (e.g., M1, M14, M1 Carbine, AR-15).

Don't forget the venerable SKS and AK military rifles!

 

[b79holmes]

sights

I guess I have another question.

Someone somewhere posted a picture of a combat sight on a shotgun.

Some of the 870's only have 1 bead. Are they drilled and tapped for other sights or must that be done to use 3rd party sights?
Any recommendations & pictures?

Thanks again,
Bill

 

[mikem317]

I used to have an old Montgomery Ward 12 gauge that if you held the trigger back and racked the action, a round would fire each time you slammed it back to full battery. Wicked fun! (not very safe though)

I think some Ithacas do that too.

 

[meth0d]

Is that the button next to the trigger guard that you have to press in before you can rack a shell?

 

[b79holmes]

yes

Is that the button next to the trigger guard that you have to press in before you can rack a shell?

Yes. I asked the question because I was wondering about 'cruiser ready' fighting shotguns. See response #4.

Bill

 

[seanc]

Yes a lot of the older Ithaca M37s will slam fire...
Unfortunately, they "fixed" this feature on the later versions. I think the last iteration of Ithaca..
.