Purchasing a C&R handgun in NJ

dwarven1

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A friend of mine is getting his C&R. He was reading the NJ laws and to him, they seem to say that he needs a purchase permit even when he's buying a handgun as a C&R. Anyone familiar with NJ laws enough to give an opinion? Rscalzo?
 
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I live in NJ. Thought about getting the C&R but decided against it when I found out you still have to apply for a pistol permit even with a C&R.
 

dwarven1

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I live in NJ. Thought about getting the C&R but decided against it when I found out you still have to apply for a pistol permit even with a C&R.
It's still worth getting; you get dealer pricing at places like Brownells and MidwayUSA!
 

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I just had a NH gun/criminal lawyer tell me NOT to even get a C&R license, because it gives up too much control to the BATFE.
 
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I just had a NH gun/criminal lawyer tell me NOT to even get a C&R license, because it gives up too much control to the BATFE.
Ok, I'll bite. What control does simply getting a C&R license give ATF? Especially if you don't actually purchase any C&R guns? The fact that they can compel me to trudge down to the local ATF field office with my guns and records once a year if they feel so inclined is an understood cost I pay to get the pricing and availability that it opens up to me.
 

doobie

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Ok, I'll bite. What control does simply getting a C&R license give ATF? Especially if you don't actually purchase any C&R guns? The fact that they can compel me to trudge down to the local ATF field office with my guns and records once a year if they feel so inclined is an understood cost I pay to get the pricing and availability that it opens up to me.
BATFE rewrites their regulations such that you no longer have to trudge down to the local ATF field office because they will now just show up at your house for such a purpose, oh and if you aren't home, they'll let themselves in... thereby you lose your 4th amendment right by being a C&R holder.

I've never seen any oversight in their new rules and regulations... so it it not only can happen, but it is only a matter of time.
 

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I've had people tell me to be careful getting a C&R license because of the fact that BATFE can bother you once a year. I really don't care because I've got nothing to hide, I properly log everything in the book, and if I did have to meet up with an agent, it'd be a good chance to bother them with all kinds of questions.

By the way, has anyone ever heard of the BATFE contacting a C&R collector to have their firearms and records looked over?
 
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BATFE rewrites their regulations such that you no longer have to trudge down to the local ATF field office because they will now just show up at your house for such a purpose, oh and if you aren't home, they'll let themselves in... thereby you lose your 4th amendment right by being a C&R holder.

I've never seen any oversight in their new rules and regulations... so it it not only can happen, but it is only a matter of time.
I'm not buying that argument. Why do you need a C&R license for that to happen? If ATF is rewriting things, why couldn't they rewrite their rules and and regulations that says they have the right to just show up at anybody's house (C&R or not) and inspect their guns (that, have, of course, been involved in interstate commerce)?
 
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I've had people tell me to be careful getting a C&R license because of the fact that BATFE can bother you once a year.
Yes, you certainly need to be aware of that requirement, and if you're not comfortable with it, then don't get a C&R. But people are paranoid about it, and often misrepresent it as the fact that ATF has the right to bust into your house in the middle of the night and make trouble for you. The truth of the matter is, if ATF decides they have enough reason to do that, they'll get a warrant and do it anyway, C&R or not.
 

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I'm not buying that argument. Why do you need a C&R license for that to happen? If ATF is rewriting things, why couldn't they rewrite their rules and and regulations that says they have the right to just show up at anybody's house (C&R or not) and inspect their guns (that, have, of course, been involved in interstate commerce)?
I don't buy the "FFL or NFA registration gives unlimited permission" argument either.

Pragmatically speaking it makes little difference- BATFE has abused FFL holders and "normal" people alike.... getting a license from them doesn't really change that probability much.

-Mike
 

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I'm not buying that argument. Why do you need a C&R license for that to happen? If ATF is rewriting things, why couldn't they rewrite their rules and and regulations that says they have the right to just show up at anybody's house (C&R or not) and inspect their guns (that, have, of course, been involved in interstate commerce)?
Much easier to say/do if you have are a licensed dealer through the ATF.

And give it a few years if Obama wins, they might try to do that.
 

dwarven1

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They do? 2C:58-3 seems to indicate that as long as the purchaser has a Firearms purchaser identification card, and a the state form gets filled out and signed, private sales are legal. So what am I missing?
A visit from a friggin' ATF agent to inspect your apartment BEFORE issuing you a C&R FFL, and a Q&A session where he explained to my buddy that NJ laws require ALL guns to go through a dealer. Well, all the ones that come in from out of state, anyway... and a C&R does NOT make you a dealer. Or so my friend tells me, anyway. Since I'm NEVER moving back to Jersey, I haven't bothered to research it myself.
I've had people tell me to be careful getting a C&R license because of the fact that BATFE can bother you once a year. I really don't care because I've got nothing to hide, I properly log everything in the book, and if I did have to meet up with an agent, it'd be a good chance to bother them with all kinds of questions.

By the way, has anyone ever heard of the BATFE contacting a C&R collector to have their firearms and records looked over?
No, but I have heard of one inspecting the premises and doing a personal interview before the applicant got his C&R - my buddy who lives in NJ, which is how this whole sordid thread got started.


PS - From what Mike tells me, the ATF guy was a young guy, very personable and very cool - not your Hollywood stereotype JBT at all.
 
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A visit from a friggin' ATF agent to inspect your apartment BEFORE issuing you a C&R FFL, and a Q&A session where he explained to my buddy that NJ laws require ALL guns to go through a dealer. Well, all the ones that come in from out of state, anyway... and a C&R does NOT make you a dealer.
I noticed the NJ statute doesn't really effectively address guns coming in from out of state. It seems to be somewhat silent on it. That's why I asked if I was missing something, assuming what I was missing was a regulation, or case, or procedural ruling that stated what the ATF agent told your friend. And you're right, a C&R most definitely does NOT make you a dealer. Not by state law, and not by federal law.
 

dwarven1

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I noticed the NJ statute doesn't really effectively address guns coming in from out of state. It seems to be somewhat silent on it. That's why I asked if I was missing something, assuming what I was missing was a regulation, or case, or procedural ruling that stated what the ATF agent told your friend. And you're right, a C&R most definitely does NOT make you a dealer. Not by state law, and not by federal law.
Apparently the way the law is worded is that the gun must be transferred by a dealer - it's not a blatant thing but inferred by the wording, I think.
 

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I'm hearing all sorts of good reasons not to live in NJ, so far nothing supporting the proposition that I shouldn't have a C&R license if I've already made the mistake of being there.

Ken
 

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I'm hearing all sorts of good reasons not to live in NJ, so far nothing supporting the proposition that I shouldn't have a C&R license if I've already made the mistake of being there.

Ken
I have no interest in a C&R, but I'm reminded how blessed I am to not live in NJ myself.

I have *most* of the guns that I want, I paid a slightly higher cost than others would for them in a free state, but I have them, and more importantly, everyday before leaving the house I put on a pistol and carry it legally everywhere I go. Not to mention, unless my LTC's revoked I can buy 100 guns a day if I so please, I don't need permission for each one, and I'm allowed to use whatever carry ammo I please.

Mass. is far from free or great, but from what I can see NJ is like a prison camp.
 
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Hi all, I'm the infamous cause of this thread. [smile] As I've been checking things out here in The People's Republic of New Jersey, I've learned a few things:

According to NJ State Law only Licensed Dealers may recieve direct shipments of any type of firearm. As an added bonus a holder of an FFL must have a State issued license to deal in NJ.[puke]

Transfer of any handgun within NJ, (be it a C/R or not) requires a Pistol Purchase Permit.
It is however, legal to transfer privately within the state.

Transfer of long arms privately is also ok provided the paperwork is submitted & the purchaser has a FID Card.

It is in the Interstate Commerce part of the curio/relic FFL that things are a little fuzzy.
I can find no prohibition on purchasing a c/r firearm out of state, in person, and bringing it back with me as long as I keep proper records. I'm going to keep researching before I try this.[rules]

As to the interview & inspection questions; The agent who came to my home called in advance to make an appointment at my convenience. He was polite & had a good sense of humor. He said that the interview was basically because they get so few applications from NJ, (the license is almost useless) he needed to go over the regulations with me to let me know which ones did & did not apply. With the inspection question, according to him, it is more likely that the NJ State Police would want to see my book & firearms. They have the right to do this routinely once a year, after notifying you a reasonable amount of time in advance. They generally don't bother with C&R licensees, they're too busy with dealers. Hope he's right.

Sorry about the long-windedness, don't know if this helps anyone, hope so[grin], don't know if it muddies things further, hope not[sad].

Any advice is welcome.

Mike
 

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Hey, Bro - good to see you posting, and in GREEN, too!! Only took me three years to get you on NES. [wink]
 
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This is my understanding of C&R's in NJ. I have a brother who lives in NJ and convinced him to get a C&R. He mailed in an application and got the same phone call and visit from the ATF. They explained to him that under Fed law he would be getting his C&R if he wanted it. However, under NJ law if he were to use his C&R to get a gun without having a NJ lisence, then he would be in violation of NJ law. He was also informed that the ATF would inform NJ of his getting a C&R. So it is useless to get a C&R in NJ as already pointed out. You cannot use it to get a C&R pistol without being a delar yourself or going through a NJ dealer. My brother chose to not bother. It is a sad state in terms of gun laws.
 
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This is my understanding of C&R's in NJ. I have a brother who lives in NJ and convinced him to get a C&R. He mailed in an application and got the same phone call and visit from the ATF. They explained to him that under Fed law he would be getting his C&R if he wanted it. However, under NJ law if he were to use his C&R to get a gun without having a NJ lisence, then he would be in violation of NJ law. He was also informed that the ATF would inform NJ of his getting a C&R. So it is useless to get a C&R in NJ as already pointed out. You cannot use it to get a C&R pistol without being a delar yourself or going through a NJ dealer. My brother chose to not bother. It is a sad state in terms of gun laws.
hold on a second! a C+R can help you get discounts at places like Midway and Brownells. It is far from totally useless!
 
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hold on a second! a C+R can help you get discounts at places like Midway and Brownells. It is far from totally useless!
I stopped buying from Midway because of their outrageous shipping prices and seldom order from Brownells. Like it was said the C&R is totally useless in this state!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just another way of getting your name into another federal database.
 
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