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Question for Landowners

AHM said:
5buq23.jpg
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"Life is good"
 
Spanz said:
i taught a few basic hunter education courses here in MA. i was amazed at how many times one of the students would sweep the crowd. a couple in every class
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My favorite is when someone says “something is wrong” or “it’s jammed”. And then promptly turned and point it right under your jaw...

I kind of got used to it, but every time I want to snatch the gun out of their hand and pistol whip them with it
 
PatMcD said:
NH and MA don't have any kind of "Limited Landowner Liability" law on the books?
Lame.
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It’s not just an issue of laws on the books, and MA does have some form of this IIrc. People can still sue for years putting you in a position of having to spend time, effort, and money to defend yourself. Ask the fellow from Mole Hollow Candle in Shelburne Falls, MA about it. Some folks who hurt themselves playing around on the falls went after him for years claiming he was responsible because the gate to the stairway they used to access the falls was adjacent to his property. In the end he “won” but it still took a huge toll on him.

At the ski hill we never gave people permission to hike our property in the off season. They were welcome to but if they asked and we okayed it their well-being on our property became our responsibility. I’ve got some funny stories about conversations with people seeking permission loosing their mind not understanding that I wasn’t saying no just not giving them our blessing.

Cosby’s signage is pretty interesting on his parcel in Shelburne. They read ‘You do not have permission to be here’ not that you can’t be there.

Once you knowingly give consent, all the protections under the law go out the window is what I’ve been told.
 
dingbat said:
It’s not just an issue of laws on the books, and MA does have some form of this IIrc. People can still sue for years putting you in a position of having to spend time, effort, and money to defend yourself. Ask the fellow from Mole Hollow Candle in Shelburne Falls, MA about it. Some folks who hurt themselves playing around on the falls went after him for years claiming he was responsible because the gate to the stairway they used to access the falls was adjacent to his property. In the end he “won” but it still took a huge toll on him.

At the ski hill we never gave people permission to hike our property in the off season. They were welcome to but if they asked and we okayed it their well-being on our property became our responsibility. I’ve got some funny stories about conversations with people seeking permission loosing their mind not understanding that I wasn’t saying no just not giving them our blessing.

Cosby’s signage is pretty interesting on his parcel in Shelburne. They read ‘You do not have permission to be here’ not that you can’t be there.

Once you knowingly give consent, all the protections under the law go out the window is what I’ve been told.
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That's not the way it is here in Maine. If you allow recreational use of your property by the general public (hiking, hunting, fishing, snowmobiling, whatever), you are immune from lawsuits if somebody decides to sue you because they got hurt.
It's true anybody can sue you for anything at anytime, but there has never been a successful lawsuit against a Maine landowner for the issues we're talking about. There basically isn't an attorney who would be willing to take the case.
 
PatMcD said:
That's not the way it is here in Maine. If you allow recreational use of your property by the general public (hiking, hunting, fishing, snowmobiling, whatever), you are immune from lawsuits if somebody decides to sue you because they got hurt.
It's true anybody can sue you for anything at anytime, but there has never been a successful lawsuit against a Maine landowner for the issues we're talking about. There basically isn't an attorney who would be willing to take the case.
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That is awesome.

Now, beat the sh*t out of all the judges that allowed that sh*t to happen in their court.

Because what you describe is the way it should be.
 
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Broccoli Iglesias said:
That is awesome.

Now, beat the sh*t put of all the judges thst allowed that sh*t to happen in their court.

Because what you describe is the way it should be.
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From what I can see the MA and ME laws are fairly similar, so it is entirely on the culture of the respective judicial systems. What I understand from the saga the Mole Hollow guy related to me, insurance companies will just settle for some amount that is less than the cost of fighting even though they know they’ll win in the end. ME seems to have a provision to recover court costs and legal fees. Perhaps MA either doesn’t have this provision or doesn’t have a track record of coming through on that end of things.

eta: From what I understand, the incident involving Mole Hollow is the primary reason public access to the potholes was closed off.
 
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PatMcD said:
dingbat said:
Once you knowingly give consent, all the protections under the law go out the window is what I’ve been told.
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That's not the way it is here in Maine. If you allow recreational use of your property by the general public (hiking, hunting, fishing, snowmobiling, whatever), you are immune from lawsuits if somebody decides to sue you because they got hurt.
It's true anybody can sue you for anything at anytime, but there has never been a successful lawsuit against a Maine landowner for the issues we're talking about. There basically isn't an attorney who would be willing to take the case.
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New Hampshire law is basically the same, and the landowner can recover their attorney's fees and costs:
RSA 508:14 said:
An owner, occupant, or lessee of land, including the state or any political subdivision, who without charge permits any person to use land for recreational purposes or as a spectator of recreational activity, shall not be liable for personal injury or property damage in the absence of intentionally caused injury or damage.
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RSA 212:34 said:
I. In this section:
(a) "Charge" means a payment or fee paid by a person to the landowner for entry upon, or use of the premises, for outdoor recreational activity.
(b) "Landowner" means an owner, lessee, holder of an easement, occupant of the premises, or person managing, controlling, or overseeing the premises on behalf of such owner, lessee, holder of an easement, or occupant of the premises.
(c) "Outdoor recreational activity" means outdoor recreational pursuits including, but not limited to...

II. A landowner owes no duty of care to keep the premises safe for entry or use by others for outdoor recreational activity or to give any warning of
hazardous conditions, uses of, structures, or activities on such premises to persons entering for such purposes...

III. A landowner who gives permission to another to enter or use the premises for outdoor recreational activity does not thereby:
(a) Extend any assurance that the premises are safe for such purpose;
(b) Confer to the person to whom permission has been granted the legal status of an invitee to whom a duty of care is owed; or
(c) Assume responsibility for or incur liability for an injury to person or property caused by any act of such person to whom permission has been granted, except as provided in paragraph V.
IV. Any warning given by a landowner, whether oral or by sign, guard, or issued by other means, shall not be the basis of liability for a claim that such warning was inadequate or insufficient...

VII. If, as to any action against a landowner, the court finds against the claimant because of the application of this section, it shall determine whether the claimant had a reasonable basis for bringing the action, and if no reasonable basis is found, shall order the claimant to pay for the reasonable attorneys' fees and costs incurred by the landowner in defending against the action.
VIII. It is recognized that outdoor recreational activities may be hazardous. Therefore, each person who participates in outdoor recreational activities accepts, as a matter of law, the dangers inherent in such activities, and shall not maintain an action against an owner, occupant, or lessee of land for any injuries which result from such inherent risks, dangers, or hazards. ...
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You guys really splitting hairs with your legalities....

I’m telling you, you can sue anybody for any reason.Just talk to a personal injury attorney.

I’m not an attorney but I will tell you this when you tell somebody to stay off your property and you serve somebody With a no trespass order. And then they “fall” From their tree stand. It wasn’t open to public use and you can be sued
 
MGnoob said:
You guys really splitting hairs with your legalities....
I’m telling you, you can sue anybody for any reason.Just talk to a personal injury attorney.
I’m not an attorney but I will tell you this when you tell somebody to stay off your property and you serve somebody With a no trespass order. And then they “fall” From their tree stand. It wasn’t open to public use and you can be sued
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They're going to have to fund their lawsuit out of their own pocket, because no lawyer will take such a case on contingency in ME, NH.
 
Shit, take one step further than you got to deal with your insurance company. There worse than a public defender..:
 
As Trailmaster of our local snowmobile club, I'm VERY familiar with this law. Trust me: if there is no malice on your end, you WILL NOT be sued by some douche bag who kills himself on your property. And if by some chance such a person could find a lawyer to bring up such a suit, they will lose and all fees will be paid by them. Again, NEVER has there been a successful lawsuit brought to court in Maine.

Shut down your land for whatever reason you want, but don't use "I'm gonna get sued" as an excuse.
 
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PatMcD said:
As Trailmaster of our local snowmobile club, I'm VERY familiar with this law. Trust me: if there is no malice on your end, you WILL NOT be sued by some douche bag who kills himself on your property. And if by some chance such a person could find a lawyer to bring up such a suit, they will lose and all fees will be paid by them. Again, NEVER has there been a successful lawsuit brought to court in Maine.

Shut down your land for whatever reason you want, but don't use "I'm gonna get sued" as an excuse.
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MA has some protection. But it’s not like Maine. It is ridiculous that somebody can hurt themselves and then sue you
 
Didn't expect all the generous offers and great thought provoking input and discussion on today's sad state of landowner liability. Still chuckling a good bit at that last meme.

Packed the family and a couple active steel targets (Full Size Reactive IPSC, Texas Star) and headed out to Northern NH for an overnighter in hopes of getting some R&R at a lakeside cabin as well as scouting out some intel on local gravel pits from the lodging staff. Also was able to squeeze in a quick meet with a real estate agent to view a fairly remote cabin off a class 6 road situated on almost 200 acres. All in all the trip was what I'd consider a success having scouted and visited a sizable gravel pit off a trail where we were able to setup the IPSC and spend a good 3hrs shooting with the wife and son. I fast remembered how good a shot my wife was as she cleared her first clip hitting mostly center mass with a couple dead center on the flip out reactive steel at 20yrds or so. Son graduated from 22LR today and shot his first 9mm and 40 cal on the G19 and G23. He ended the day preferring the slightly heavier impact and feel of the G23. Smart kid that may have caught his dad grinning ear to ear for a brief moment. Could've shot for another couple hours except for the incoming rain and long drive ahead of us getting home. That wasn't before I had emptied a couple more mags on what had fortunately become by the end of our range time accurate placements on the reactive steel's center and headshot elements. That ISPC reactive target is a keeper and was a blast for us all around. A great family bonding experience and the wife is starting to come around on whole idea of buying land where we could do this much more often.
 
What about Martin Burns MWA range?

www.northeastshooters.com

Martin burns target free public range some info and questions

In north east mass there's a free public range in the the Martin burns wildlife area. All you need to do is send a letter in with a self address stamp envelope, contact info and your ltc number. they'll mail you a permit for free to use the target range. Is where you mail your request...
www.northeastshooters.com www.northeastshooters.com
 
vickers said:
What about Martin Burns MWA range?

www.northeastshooters.com

Martin burns target free public range some info and questions

In north east mass there's a free public range in the the Martin burns wildlife area. All you need to do is send a letter in with a self address stamp envelope, contact info and your ltc number. they'll mail you a permit for free to use the target range. Is where you mail your request...
www.northeastshooters.com www.northeastshooters.com
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Definitely worth exploring further but some of the reported issues with it's irresponsible use and son not yet having an LTC would be hurdles for the time being.
 
Radtekk said:
OP is welcome to come shoot at my "range" any time. Well, provided I'm home that is. But it's a little far from MA if 4 hours to ME is too far. But once you get down here to God's country in Eastern Tennessee you may not want to go back...
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Just got back from Rural King a bit ago. Kinda like Walmart for rednecks. But with good ol' boy customer service. They have clothes, chickens, plumbing, electrical, tractor (REAL ones, not just lawn mowers) parts, tools, food, critter (bird, chicken, horse, cow, etc) food, everything you'd need on a farm.

And while walking through, I saw shelves, a LOT of shelves, of this:
IMG_20210604_112038_01.jpg

They also had 1 lb and 5 lb containers... Gonna be some boom-boom tomorrow[banana][banana][banana]
 

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