Question for those who like decocker + safety

Murphy's Law says the safety will be on the first time your life is depending on it being off!


As someone who has carried a USP variant 1 for at least 4 years total this is pure crap. It will never "turn itself on". The detent is pretty stiff. It's not going to get engaged unless you engage it. Even with lube in the detent plate it won't easily do it.

The USP system has a lot of faults with it, but "having the safety accidentally engage itself" on a variant 1 gun is not one of them. I mean by the parts if you want, but frankly it's a waste of time and money, and it actually reduces the value of the gun. So when you go to sell the thing (and you will, eventually, just like that AT&T ad from 1993) the guy buying it is going to want the Variant 1 plate put back in the gun, lol)

-Mike
 
Last edited:
My carry guns are DAO.....

I mostly carry a Glock these days. I feel well armed with a striker-fired gun or with a 1911. With enough practice, I would feel equally well armed carry a DA/SA gun.

All of the basic styles can work, provided you train properly.
 
I mostly carry a Glock these days. I feel well armed with a striker-fired gun or with a 1911. With enough practice, I would feel equally well armed carry a DA/SA gun.

All of the basic styles can work, provided you train properly.

yep and my grip has me sweeping off the safety on each gun, whether it is there or not
 
I'm sorry, Mark, but that is just crap. Your marksmanship under stress will be no better (and probably worse) than your marksmanship under no stress. In other words, if you can't effectively manage the DA/SA transition in practice, then you won't effectively manage it in a gunfight. Can the DA/SA transition be learned? Absolutely. Many of the top USPSA guys are now using DA/SA guns in production (CZ and EAA guns are getting popular). But it takes a lot of practice, and those USPSA guys are running light triggers.

I don't disagree with your premise at all, I just think too many make too big a deal about learning that system. It was the first system I learned so maybe I didn't know any better. I think there is a lot of residual Cooper elitism and his famous "crunchenticker" perjorative perpetrated by the early 1911 dominated IPSC elitists of days gone by.

People fight like they train however, and the marksmanship skills they have acquired will revert to their lowest level of training for most people. How well people do in competition no matter how stressful, is no substitute for combat and I think this is generally agreed upon by most authorities in the field.
 
I don't disagree with your premise at all, I just think too many make too big a deal about learning that system. It was the first system I learned so maybe I didn't know any better. I think there is a lot of residual Cooper elitism and his famous "crunchenticker" perjorative perpetrated by the early 1911 dominated IPSC elitists of days gone by.

People fight like they train however, and the marksmanship skills they have acquired will revert to their lowest level of training for most people. How well people do in competition no matter how stressful, is no substitute for combat and I think this is generally agreed upon by most authorities in the field.


One of the guys I used to shoot with in USPSA said he felt more stress at a USPSA match than in combat. Might have been because he had more trigger time in combat. Never asked him why. Everyone is going to react differently and no one can say for certainty until they are put under that stress. I hope I can revert to my lowest level of training, but it will likely be the highest level of bowel movement instead
 
. People fight like they train however, and the marksmanship skills they have acquired will revert to their lowest level of training for most people. How well people do in competition no matter how stressful, is no substitute for combat and I think this is generally agreed upon by most authorities in the field.

Competition is at least some stress. Which is more than can be said for casually putting holes in paper all by your lonesome.
 
Competition is at least some stress. Which is more than can be said for casually putting holes in paper all by your lonesome.

Totally agree 110 percent but how many engaged in lethal force engage in some sort of competition? How many get training in the use of lethal force and threat management? How many practice what they have been trained as opposed to plinking on a square range?

Sadly one need only read some of the comment on any firearms Internet forum or see read about encounters with armed citizens to see that those who compete, train and practice are in a significant minority and those who are really conversant in the laws of the application of lethal force in their respective jurisdictions represent an even smaller percentage.

You M1911 are the exception and not the rule and I suspect those you hang out with also constitute that minority.
 
My s&w 3913 3rd generation I load with the safety/decocker on so it decocks automatically. I then holster the fire arm and take the gun off safety. As mentioned before the strong DA trigger pull makes the need for the safety unneeded.

When at the range with a DA/SA handgun I fire a few rounds, decock then holster. It is good practice for safety.

My Sig P226R I just load and decock. I rarely carry this handgun since its full size.
 
Yes and no (as always Mark056)

While I do subscribe to the "fine motor skills" idea, this notion had basically convinced too many people that if shit happens, they basically become 4 months old again, sucking a thumb of one hand while trying to control what then seems to them a 400lb hand cannon.

One might not be able to paint a galloping horse when it's time to shoot, but - moving your fingers around (if practiced) to the point you can on/off a light switch, can and should be second nature, and not beyond anyone's capabilities. If one cannot obtain that - he will shoot his toes first, some vase second, a bystander, and well, maybe the perp at some point.

I love how you put words in my mouth and take things to the extreme. Studies have proven that under stress most people even those well trained will tend to open up their groups more. I never suggested or implied that "they become 4 months old yadda, yadda..." you have an interesting way of interpreting what I write...most interesting, but then I'm not sure if English is your first language.

In any event because of the tach psyche effect, auditory exlusion etc. plus the adrenaline rush the significance of a moderately heavy pull followed by a light pull seems to be rather moot as recorded in after action shooting reports by Ayoob and others.

The primary problem is that most people do not train enough, they might plink at the range. Competition is good, a major problem is that many gun clubs will not allow realistic practice under the guise of safety rules.

The biggest offenders and those who most frequently fall into your description are the police who are not firearms enthusiasts, "qualify" once or twice a year and then are involved in shootings which for lack of a better term are horriffic. Whole threads have been devoted to these fiascoes which would support the premise you proffer that indeed they do "become 4 months old sucking a thumb of one hand while trying to control what seems to them a 400 lb hand cannon" Although with the adrenaline rush I doubt it weight becomes an issue.

I daresay that the police are probably the largest group of people in the United States who use handguns in combat on a regular basis and overall their record doesn't seem very impressive with regard to shots to neutralize (kill) ratio or for collateral damage either. Most don't practice, don't compete and only train when mandated and usually don't train, just qualify which in and of itself is probably more than many gun owners do.
 
No. When you draw the gun, as the muzzle passes through the 45 degree angle, you sweep the safety off with your thumb. On a 1911, you keep your thumb on the safety while you fire the gun.

When you go to holster, you draw the gun back to your chest. You then apply the safety, rotate the gun down and holster.

If the gun is in your hand, the safety is off. It isn't that hard to learn. You just need to practice. Start doing so with the gun empty. After a thousand draws it will become habit. You will do it without thinking about it.

There are plenty of guns with decent DA triggers that can be learned. Again, it will take a lot of practice. The USP DA trigger, however, is just completely awful.

Ok, cool. I don't mind training with the safety, I do that with my AR, thumb the safety off before aiming down the sight and on after I stop shooting. I just don't want to do what drgrant is suggesting and just assume it'll stay off and not train to thumb it off.
 
Ok, cool. I don't mind training with the safety, I do that with my AR, thumb the safety off before aiming down the sight and on after I stop shooting. I just don't want to do what drgrant is suggesting and just assume it'll stay off and not train to thumb it off.

If you are going to carry hammer cocked, then the safety must be on in the holster. If you are going to carry hammer down, then the safety could be on or off, your choice.

No matter which you choose, you will need to practice doing something before you holster. That is, you will either need to apply the safety before you holster or decock before you holster. You need to train doing that. By training I don't mean doing it a couple times. I mean doing hundreds or thousands of times to the point where you can't forget it.
 
If you are going to carry hammer cocked, then the safety must be on in the holster. If you are going to carry hammer down, then the safety could be on or off, your choice.

No matter which you choose, you will need to practice doing something before you holster. That is, you will either need to apply the safety before you holster or decock before you holster. You need to train doing that. By training I don't mean doing it a couple times. I mean doing hundreds or thousands of times to the point where you can't forget it.

Thanks, I understand. I've done the procedure on my AR-15 a couple hundred times but still sometimes forget to thumb the safety off before shooting. Probably needs to be a thousand.

I don't think I'll do decock + safety, especially since it's down to decock, up to safe, it's just a bit too complicated.
 
just a side note...in the most recent "under the dome" TV series, the black guy uses a decocker after pointing his pistol at the bad mayor, but then getting talked out of shooting him.
 
just a side note...in the most recent "under the dome" TV series, the black guy uses a decocker after pointing his pistol at the bad mayor, but then getting talked out of shooting him.

Is it just one of those Hollywood gun sounds? Like the guy cocking the Glock? "Here's my Glock, but it sounds scary if I do a hammer cocking sound."
 
Back
Top Bottom