Randy Cain Course June 17 - 19, 2005

[JimConway]

Ten of us just completed Randy Cain's, 3 day, Tactical Handgun 101 course this past weekend. The following is the course description from Randy's web site.

"Tactical Handgun 101
Our most popular 3-day course is a complete introduction to the defensive use of the handgun. The comprehensive curriculum encompasses all elements of the'ModernTechnique of the Pistol' and introduces new concepts in tactical applications. The format provides a base in the fundamentals of marksmanship, tactical manipulation, the drawstroke, malfunction clearance, weapon retention, shooting on the move, moving targets, alternate tactical body positions, low-light shooting, and mental conditioning. Other topics include basic one man tactics, working with a partner, and an introduction to team tactics. This course is appropriate for beginners and is also recommended as a refresher for those with experience.
Ammunition Requirement: 600 Rounds."

This description barely does the course justice. The course content was increbible (way beyond what is mentioned) and Randy is an instructor that has to be seen and heard to appreciate just how good he is. His instruction is very complete, includes numerous war stories from his own experience, and a great deal of humor. BTW, the actual number of rounds fired was a lot closer to 800 rounds.

As an example, I will relate one quick sequence from the last day of the class. Randy was in front of the line (about 5 yards from the targets) and leading us in the Pledge of Allegance. About half way through the Pledge, he ran toward us and as he passed the line of students he screamed "Failure Drill". We all did the drill as expected. although he caught a number of students totally unaware. What a adreniline rush.

This may sound crazy, but the highpoint of the pass was the last shooting sequence. Randy told us to shoot a three shot, "one hole group" from 4 yards, holding the handgun one handed, with only the thumb, trigger finger and the index finger. Everyone did it well, but our own Len Segal aced it. Len's One hole was perfect - a "one hole" of less than an 1" in diameter.

Randy raced up to Len and gave a big loud, simulated kiss on the cheek. I must comment that Len's blush and embarassment was a thing to behold. As someone that has shot with Len many times, I could not have been happier for him. I think that everyone on this list should be giving Len a big "thumbs up".

Len has been shooting for a long time and has taken other instruction. I think that what this points up is that every quality instructor brings his own approach to the class. Many times I have found that an instructor often states something that I have heard many times in a different way and suddenly I finally understand what the others were saying.

If you are reading this post, I want to make it very clear. Randy Cain is GREAT, both as an instructor and a person. If you get the opportunity to train with him and miss it, you have missed one of the best in the world. BTW, It was the class's opinion that neshooters.com should bring him back next year for a CQT class. We have agreed to do this even though we had already finalized our 2006 class schedule.

The above are just some initial musings and memories. I will try to post a more complete class review after I get my thoughts more in order and come down from an incredible high.

 

[Adam_MA]

WOW!
Sounds like a great time. I will have to make it a point to get into one of his classes.

Adam

PS. Way to go Len!

 

[YogSothoth]

It was an amazing class, and especially good for me, who's only other class prior to Randy's was the basic safety course. Randy started with the basics of gun-handling and trigger control and continued to "layer the basics" over the course of the weekend, making for more complex and challenging drills. It was the perfect level of detail and instruction to really "get" the concepts that I'd heard for so long and then put them into practice in a multitude of situations.

Not only was Randy an excellent instructor (and one who never insisted that his way was the only way), but the other students were great as well. There's nothing like standing on the line with experienced, knowledgeable shooters on your right and left to motivate you to pick up your own level of shooting. And talk about nice people, and all very supportive of the guy with the least amount of experience (me).

I can't even articulate how much I learned over the weekend. Of course, it just opened my eyes to how much more I have to learn as well, but I feel much more confident in my own gun-handling skills. I have a lot to practice during my range sessions, that's for sure, but now I know my range sessions will actually be productive...once I get the feeling back in my thumb, of course

Len's final shots-on-target were awesome. I was pretty happy to have a cloverleaf, but Len just drilled his through the same dang hole, just like Randy asked. Nice shooting, Len!

Thanks for organizing the session, Jim. The whole event went off without a hitch thanks to all your hard work. You weren't kidding about how different my shooting would be by the end of the weekend!

 

[JimConway]

YogSothoth

I will be good and resist the desire to say "I told you so". I am pleased that you feel that you got your dollars worth. You were a great addition to the class. And now for the part that I did not tell you, you are hooked and you have a habit. Good training is in many ways like illegal drugs. Try it once and you never want to quit. I know for sure that I can not quit and I am 68. I have tried everything and I am told that there in no known cure.

Randy said it and I have learned it the hard way. "There are no advanced techniques, the basics are all that there is and all that you need"

 

[AndyL]

Randys Class from an observers point of view

All:

I had the chance to observe most of Randys class and found the experience to be wonderful (I took the 101 class before). To watch it was AMAZING. He took some novice shooters and a couple of rusty shooters and whipped them into shape in the style that ONLY Randy can do.

As an instructor I gleaned a few tips and marveled at the way Randy handled the class, kept the range safe and instilled a positive attitude towards the shooting/shooters.

It was FANTASTIC!

 

[M1911]

This was my first class with someone from the Gunsite school of thought. That was part of my attraction to the course -- it was a way to broaden my exposure with another school of thought. My previous classes have been at LFI and Sigarms Academy and there were some noticeable differences.

On several occasions Randy said that when it comes down to Weaver versus Isosceles he felt that it didn't make much difference. He's a Weaver shooter, but to me his Weaver looked a bit extended compared to what I was taught -- closer to Chapman. Note that I am very unschooled when it comes to Weaver, so I may be very mistaken. I agree with Randy when he says that when the SHTF, you won't be in some classic range position. You'll be in whatever works, so the classic range position really doesn't matter that much.

Ayoob is an Isosceles shooter, but teaches Chapman and Weaver as well in LFI-1. Sigarms also taught Isosceles when I attended their classes (though their instructor cadre has turned over since then, so I don't know what they are teaching now). While some folks say that Weaver allows better control of recoil, I have to say that I do not agree. I find that Isosceles allows me to control recoil better. When in close quarters, I agree that Weaver keeps the gun closer to you and farther from the bad guy.

Randy does teach the Isosceles style thumb-forward grip. That's what I've been using for years with my M1911s and I find it works better for me than thumb-on-top-of-thumb, or high thumbs. Unfortunately, I find that it doesn't work with Glocks because my thumb ends up too close to the slide stop

Randy felt very strongly that you should charge the chamber using an overhand grip, rather than a slingshot. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention, but I don't remember him articulating why. I can somewhat understand the argument that for failure drill you would use overhand, so you should do that for everything to be consistent. But I really don't see the problem with slingshot. Anyone care to enlighten me? I use slingshot when loading an empty gun. I find it easier to keep the muzzle pointed directly in front of me when using a slingshot. Using the overhand method, it is easy to point the gun off to the left.

When doing a speed reload, I generally agreed with Randy's logic. While he recommends releasing the slide with an overhand motion, he says that he uses the slide stop. I mostly carry 1911s (big surprise) and I do use the slide stop with my left thumb. I find it faster and I've never had a problem missing the slide stop. YMMV.

I heartily agree with Randy that if you carry a Glock that you may want to use an overhand method instead -- the Glock slide stop is very small, too close to the slide, and made of soft stamped metal. It just doesn't work as well for me.

When it comes to the press check, I was very heartened to see him recommend against the thumb through the trigger guard and finger on the recoil plug method initially taught at Gunsite. My first exposure to that method was at LFI-1 when Ayoob demonstrated it and said that "you will not do that on my range!" Amen. Fingers that close to the muzzle scare the bejesus out of me.

Randy teaches an underhand press check. He recommends against using a slingshot press check. IIRC, he feels you can't easily control how much you pull back the slide using a slingshot press check. In contrast, John Farnam recommends against using the slingshot method for a press check precisely because he feels you can't easily control how much you pull back the slide when using the underhand method: http://www.defense-training.com/quips/04May05.html

I agree with Randy that using the overhand method for a press check doesn't work that well because your hand gets in the way. But I've been using the slingshot method for years without any trouble and it keeps your fingers farther away from the muzzle than the underhand press check. So I don't get what is wrong with the slingshot method for a press check. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Randy did teach the Gunsite method of slightly tossing the gun in your hand when reloading to shift your grip before releasing the magazine. Am I the only one uncomfortable with this? It seems to me to be a good way to drop your gun and I've never had a problem releasing the magazine without shifting your grip. Why add that complication to your reload? It seems and unnecessary complication to me. What say you?

Please don't take this as criticism of Randy. He's a great instructor and I learned (and relearned) a lot. I'd just like to explore the differences between the East Coast and Gunsite schools of thought more fully so I can understand the reasoning better. You may convince me that the Gunsite way is better (or vice versa).

 

[Len-2A Training]

Randy Cain's Class June 17-19, 2005 - Len's Review:

Randy’s Mantra - “It’s all about the Basics!”
- Explanation – All shooting is about the basics, but we learn to build basics in layers so that we can do more, better, faster, and more accurately.

One hole drills.

He teaches us to “take the curve” ONLY at the maximum speed that we can do it without “crashing and burning”. Personally I crashed and burned many too many times! Even though he tells you this, he’ll oftentimes give us an urgent command that is designed to see if we listened and obey the “take your time and make an accurate shot” vs. panicking and missing the curve. As Randy explained, each of us will be able to take the curve at our own speed . . . over time we can build speed, but if we rush it (beyond our abilities) we’ll blow it.

Lots of shooting on the move. Malfunction drills, reloading on the move, etc.

Some shooting in a two-person team, giving code commands to each other to cover “two bad guys” as one reloads while the other person “covers” the bad guys and then the other person gets to reload while the first person covers for them. Very good “team building” exercise.

Shooting between our legs while laying on our backs, shooting while laying on our stomachs (also how to create a good solid “platform” for accuracy this way), shooting upside down on our backs over our heads!

Night shooting with flashlights. Beware of “gunsmoke” blocking your sights for follow-up shots. I was shooting PMC and WW factory ammo . . . still smoky for too long after the first shot!

A very interesting drill where he lays out two large square areas and has two people each shoot one shot at each of three targets while walking a prescribed path (forward, backward and sideways). Some of those times the other shooter was beside you and in front or behind you, so safety is key. Randy’s comment is that sometimes there could be two or more people in the room that you don’t want to shoot and we need to learn to do those kind of drills.

Shooting with hostage scenarios: Avoid killing Granny or the baby!! These were run as friendly competitions until there was only one winner left standing. Cool stuff.

Comments:

- It really helped to have 10 mags for this class! 7 were 8 rd and 3 were 10 rd 1911 mags. Many times we were reloading as Randy laid out a scenario, only to have him finish and give a fire command as some of us were standing there with a mag and some number of rounds in our hands! Damn! A few times I was carrying so much ammo (in lower side pockets of cargo pants) that I felt like if I walked a little faster, inertia would carry me away and I’d fall over! [shock]

- When I unloaded my mags it looks like I shot ~700 rounds in this class.

- On the failure drill, Randy lulled us into a false sense of security and then yelled “shoot him, shoot him”, so no not all of us did a legit failure drill (2 CM and 1 between the eyes). I know that I had forgotten that he said (early on, before the Pledge) that “our next scenario will be a failure drill” when he shouted and I interpreted it as a different drill, so I reacted with 4 CM shots instead. Afterwards Randy told us that when he does this, reactions vary . . . some will do it right, some will spray the target, some will make it up as they go (guilty as charged). :?

- The point of all this is as Randy told us many times, in a real shooting situation, there is going to be chaos! There will be as he put it (IIRC) babies crying, people screaming, sirens wailing, radio traffic (he was a LEO), etc. and you have to react thru all this in an appropriate way without letting all the distractions get to you.

- As for the final one-hole drill, when I aced it I’m just damn glad that Andy was elsewhere and not standing by with the camera when Randy mugged me! :?

Revelations:

- Randy asked us to focus on our fingernail as we held our index finger out like the front sight of a gun, that we should be able to see the striations in the cuticle. That’s when I realized that I could NOT focus on that fingernail unless I hyperextended my neck . . . a very uncomfortable position and I can’t see adequately to walk like that. I have progressive bifocals and that is causing me mucho problems in proper sighting in on the front sight. Now I know that I have to get some other glasses specially made for shooting (but still able to see well enough to walk and function on the range).

- Similarly, trying to shoot over my head upside down is damn near impossible with bifocals!

- For those of us with eyesight issues, standard bifocal glasses are totally unsuitable! Some have recommended ESS’ ICE system (claimed to be used by US and British military) as a cost-effective solution. Glasses with 3 lenses cost $36.00, Rx inserts for your own Rx lenses cost $27.00 . . . no idea what my Rx lenses to put in these inserts will cost me yet. Will be talking with my Optician later today. This was recommended to me by others, but I’ve never seen them (except on some Soldiers/Marines being interviewed by Fox News), so I am NOT personally endorsing them. Check them out here:

o http://www.gunnersalley.com/product/ESSGLASSES
o http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/ice24.html

Randy is an excellent instructor and I highly recommend taking his classes if you get the opportunity! Each instructor brings their own style and technique to their classes and we learn a lot from each of them!

 

[JimConway]

The Return of Randy Cain

We have started initial discussions with him about next year. It seemed to be the concensus of the the call that he did a great job. The class that we discussed was his CQT (Close Quarters Tactics) class. This class would have the students working in pairs and would have two instructors.

The only problem that I see is that we would need 20 to 24 students to make the class work. Would anyone be interested?

Stay tuned for more info or check www.neshooters.com

 

[Admin]

I'm in.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Pictures from Randy Cain Class

Here are some of the pictures from the Randy Cain class.

http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=26329997/t_=30001003

Edited since photos are now on Snapfish (HP closed down their website).

 

[M1911]

I'm in.

 

[Admin]

Awesome pics Len thanks for sharing with the rest of us.

 

[Lynne]

Len - do you know who the guy was in the very first photo that was sitting down? I think that might have been the secretary from our gun club - if not, then he's got a double.

 

[AndyL]

Len's front sight...

Len,

Have you tried a tight Weaver like I do it????? I get the gun REALLLY close (have Jim show you, perhaps we have a photo on neshooters.com ).

It really works well for me.

Andy

 

[Len-2A Training]

Lynne, I'll reply via Email.

Andy, you have the strangest hold I've ever seen (and both Jims have commented similarly). It might indeed be useful to me . . . next time we are both at Tyngsboro you'll have to show it to me and I'll try it out (I only vaguely remember the posture). I thought I recalled your shooting pictures, but don't see them currently on NE Shooters. Will check with Jim or check out your site.

 

[YogSothoth]

Jim: I'd definitely be interested in the CQT class. I'm sure it will be very intense, but definitely worth the investment and effort. Hopefully it will give me motivation to get back to exercising regularly so that my fat has muscle to ride upon.

Len/Andy: thanks for taking/posting the pictures...am I really that fat? Damn...I guess I am [oops] Mental note: stand next to H. in all shots from now on At least there's no photographic evidence of me hitting the doll (nor did Randy catch it...neither did I until it was pointed out that there were more holes than could be explained on the doll. I believe I realized that one of them might be mine and B. agreed) Regardless, the pictures reinforce some great memories.

Again: it was an excellent training session and I plan to continue practicing and training as much as my time/finances will allow. Thanks again, all!

 

[JimConway]

Randy Cain Class Pictures

I have posted some of the class pictures at http://www.neshooters.com/gallery.html

I will be posting more as soon as I finish getting them all.

Enjoy and don't you wish that you were there.

 

[Admin]

Nice pics Jim.

 

[JimConway]

This month's issue of Concealed Carry Magazine has an excellent review of the same Randy Cain that we held this past June. I hope that some of you are interested

You can view a full-color PDF of the article here: http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/tactical101.pdf

If you haven't seen Concealed Carry Magazine, it is a very nice effort that is in its early stages -- about a year's worth of issues have been printed. It is evolving over time and becoming a nice product. Like most of the stuff out there, the content is pretty basic for a group like this, but the "mission" of the magazine is a good one. It is currently available by subscription only.