Range safety and the use of ECI/OBI's

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I'm not really sure I'll get the most bang for my buck posting this here but here goes.

I shoot at an indoor range and we're debating rules for handling firearms. I've shot bullseye, highpower, smallbore, IDPA, skeet, trap, and a few other disciplines. There seem to be different rules for different disciplines as they pertain to the handling of firearms. Of course safety is what's most important but how do you deal with different disciplines?

Bullseye shooters open their box on the line and then remove their pistol. The NRA now mandates that a ECI now be used but when is it inserted, before or after you get to the shooting line?


Highpower shooters roll their rifles around on a cart with an ECI inserted, sometimes in a case, sometimes not. ECI is inserted when rifle comes out of it's case.

The IDPA matches I have shot, it used to be that you went to a safe area and put your pistol in your holster. Now we go to the first stage and under the watchful eye of the range officer, take the pistol out of it's case, show it is empty, drop slide or close cylinder, pull trigger, and insert in holster.

When I shot smallbore, you arrived either at the ready line or clubroom if it was an indoor match, opened your case and inserted your ECI. The rifle either stayed in the case, went in the rifle rack, or went into the range.

Trap and skeet shooters just open the action when the shotgun comes out of the case and it goes to the line or gets put into a rack, where the action is closed again.

Ok, now back to my question. How should an indoor range that shoots pistol and smallbore rifle deal with safety and the handling of firearms? We do not allow the removal of cased firearms unless you are at the shooting station, no moving firearms between ports. Seems like the safest method. Now throw smallbore shooters into the mix with their large pile of equipment. Trying to get a 2-gun case out in a narrow shooting station is difficult at best. Most times if you're carrying two rifles, they are pointed in opposite directions. How do you deal with this? All the smallbore indoor events I shot at (haven't shot in 3 years) you arrived in the clubroom, opened your case, and inserted your ECI. No one blinked and eye.

Throw loaded carry guns into the mix, no wonder it gets confussing.

How is this handled at your club? What are your rules?
 
I understand the need for safety. I'm primarily a Trapezoid, so that may color my answer.

ECIs are a tool, but the 3 Rules is really all you need.

A muzzle sweep with the action flaggged is still bad.

That being said, at my club the Jr. Smallbore kids use the flags.
 
I'd suggest that you have a set of standard range rules that are in place unless the shooters are under the control of a match director, range safety officer, or instructor.

That'll protect you whenever there aren't safety-conscious eyes watching the shooters, but allows the organized-event directors the ability to determine the rules that best work with their competition. During those matches, there are ALWAYS RSOs watching for violations of the rules.
 
Wow, I thought I'd get a few more hits on this!

First....what is the need for the rules (obviously, safety) that your range is debating? Was there an incident, or are you trying to get ahead of the curve?

If you have specific concrens, you should articulate them, and then you might get more hits.

As for the difference between, say, Trap and High Power rifle....I'd say that part of the difference is that Trap involves more movement, so the sight of people walking around is not as jarring to the senses (you have to move from post to post, etc.) Another factor is that a good percentage of Trap used break-open guns, so it's obvious that they're "safe". As for pumps and autos, I am very clear to all that the actions are to be open in the rack, and while moving about, when I'm running the range.
 
As for the difference between, say, Trap and High Power rifle.

On thing that I have always thought curious about shotgunnery is how the "never point the gun at something you are not willing to destroy" rule does not apply, as evidenced by the custom of resting the shotgun muzzle on the top of one's shoe. There are even commercial pads you lace up in your show to provide a nice resting place for the muzzle.
 
Well, I prefer the affirmative statement, "Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction"... the ol' "pink elephant" theory, and all.[smile]

Part of it is a practical matter - if you're shootng 100 birds, you have to do a significant amount of lifting in about an hour - 100 reps of whatever your gun weighs. "I lift things up [then shoot] and put them down" [laugh] Fatigue becomes a factor, and conserving energy is an important part of the game.

Most of the foot-resters have break-opens so it's safe. If you have a break-open, that's open, is it truly pointed? ( full disclosure - I will occasionally do it, with an auto, but there's no shell in it, and the bolt is open. )

By the same token, if you're carrying, a good point of the time, the muzzle is not pointed in a "safe" direction, either! [shocked] Here's one: if you have a loaded handgun in a holster, and wish to pass it to another person, momentarily, would you first remove it from the holster, clear it, and replace it in the holster, then go through the manipulation of the gun when putting it back on? If it's safe to have in the holster when it's on your hip, is it safe to have it loaded in the holster when you pass it over?

My point is that there is a continuum of safety - that's why in an NRA class there's no live ammo allowed, and carry pieces need to be secured.

I guess in the final analysis, it's like driving a car....next time you're tooling down a road without a jersey barrier up the middle, and see a nice, big truck coming in the other direction, remember, it's the common acceptance of the rules of the road, and trust that the other person is up to the job of properly controlling their equipment that makes driving possible.

A rifle range, a trap range and an action pistol course have different requirements, and therefore different saftey rules. But, as long as everyone knows, and follows the rules all will be OK.
 
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The IDPA matches I have shot, it used to be that you went to a safe area and put your pistol in your holster. Now we go to the first stage and under the watchful eye of the range officer, take the pistol out of it's case, show it is empty, drop slide or close cylinder, pull trigger, and insert in holster.

WTF
 
have a safe zone to unload your fire arm,and put a flag in to make sure the gun is empty or the chamber is open for the loaded guns have them go to a safe zone and do the same thing.
 
Your club's procedures are highly unusual and unheard of around here.

The S&W performance center has this policy. There is no "safe table". They had you unbag on your first stage and bag up after your last stage at the line. That's how they ran the IDPA indoor nationals last time I shot it two years ago. Every other IDPA/USPSA match has used a safe table.
 
Your club's procedures are highly unusual and unheard of around here.

Not my club, I have just shot there if your refering to the IDPA match. Just trying to gain insight on how everyone's indoor ranges deal with occasional pistol and rifle shooters, match bullseye and smallbore shooters. Doesn't seem like a subject that many want to touch!
 
Now we go to the first stage and under the watchful eye of the range officer, take the pistol out of it's case, show it is empty, drop slide or close cylinder, pull trigger, and insert in holster.

This is just silly and not something I have encountered at any IDPA or USPSA match in three different states.

If a range can't trust someone to got to safe area and safely take an unloaded gun out of a bag and put in a holster either the shooters don't belong there or the range officials are out of control. My money is on the latter.
 
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This is just silly and not something I have encountered at any IDPA or USPSA match in three different states.

If a range can't trust someone to got to safe area and safely take an unloaded gun out of a bag and put in a holster either the shooters don't belong there or the range officials are out of control. My money is on the latter.

I'm guessing you haven't shot the IDPA Indoor Nationals at S&W. I believe that's how they run all their IDPA matches. They don't have safe tables.
 
I'm guessing you haven't shot the IDPA Indoor Nationals at S&W. I believe that's how they run all their IDPA matches. They don't have safe tables.
I haven't. I shot an IDPA match at S&W back about 6 years ago and they had safe tables then.

I'd guess the corporate types got involved in that rule.
 
I'm guessing you haven't shot the IDPA Indoor Nationals at S&W. I believe that's how they run all their IDPA matches. They don't have safe tables.

Wasn't there some kind of incident at S&W a year or two ago where some guy had a "leg pop" where he shot himself in the leg? I don't forget the circumstances.... maybe that's why they went 'full tard. [thinking]

-Mike
 
The issue of two rifles in opposite directions in a case is easy. Open case, remove the rifle that is pointed down range and make it safe. Close the case, rotate it 180 degrees, and then remove the second and make safe. No one gets swept and it reinforces the rule of always keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
 
Highscore,

I recently took charge of our club's Indoor Range. I'll tell you how we handle various situations. We shoot bull's eye on the range as well as general centerfire pistol, and .22 cal rifle.
As of now, all gun handling takes place at the shooting station. A pistol can be brought in cased (and unloaded) or holstered (loaded or unloaded) Either way the gun is made safe at the shooting station. When finished shooting, the member cases or holsters (or loads and holsters) their gun (at the shooting station) for removal from the range.

For bull's eye, the gun is brought in cased or in a shooter's box and set up at the shooting station. When the match is finished, target pistols are made safe, packed up in a case or box, and then can be taken from the range.

Recently, I got some feedback (and some push-back) from members who wanted to be able to clean guns in the room outside of the range. Starting in March, we'l be going with a "safe table" system where they can handle, disaasemble, or clean their guns. The provision, of course, is that no ammunition in any form can be present at the safe table.

I hope this is helpful.
 
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