Rare Breed Triggers Accused Of Creating "Machine Gun" Loses First Court Battle With ATF

Reptile

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Florida company Rare Breed Trigger, LLC manufactures a drop-in trigger that makes an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle cycle rounds faster lost its first court battle with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), according to Orlando-based news outlet WFTV. This means the company must halt all sales of its FRT-15 trigger while it waits for trial.

On July 26, the ATF sent a letter to Rare Breed stating the FRT-15 trigger has been classified as a machine gun under the National Firearms Act, and the company must cease all sales or face fines and jail time.

In early August, Lawrence DeMonico, president of Rare Breed, sued the ATF after the agency said the drop-in trigger converted the semi-automatic weapon into a "machinegun," capable of firing more than one bullet per trigger pull. He said the ATF's claim is preposterous as the trigger must entirely cycle before the next round is fired.

Continues...
 

VetteGirlMA

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They asked for a preliminary injunction to block ATF’s ruling and court denied it. Not really the “first round”. The court case proceeds.

ATF: Excuse me we would like to shut your company down so that you can no longer do business.
Rare: But you will kill our business.
Judge: Hold my beer, keep them shut down.

I wouldn't want to be a business owner on the receiving end of bored government stooges looking to puff up their importance by picking on a small company. This is a great example of fishing around to create new case law. Again fire 90% and reduce all salaries to minimum wage. We'll see how much it matters then.
 

Dennis in MA

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Yeah. "This won't cause undue economic harm." Ummmm, it's THEIR ONLY PRODUCT! LOL

I'm not a fan of this trigger. It seems stupid. But, based on the current law, it's not against the law. In addition, the judge can't rule that this doesn't cause undue harm just because it might be "dangerous." That's now how rights work. What did the scared criers say? Everybody wants to rule the world?
 

xjma99

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This is crazy. I’ve tried one, and I can dump a regular semi trigger more quickly. The frt takes some getting used to to run it well, atleast in my experience. I couldn’t tell a difference with Jerry’s finger.
 

andrew1220

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This is crazy. I’ve tried one, and I can dump a regular semi trigger more quickly. The frt takes some getting used to to run it well, atleast in my experience. I couldn’t tell a difference with Jerry’s finger.
This was posted by Lena a couple years ago. Funny stuffE01262F1-4454-4F21-8D55-093AE542A7D4.png
 

ddraper

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This is crazy. I’ve tried one, and I can dump a regular semi trigger more quickly. The frt takes some getting used to to run it well, atleast in my experience. I couldn’t tell a difference with Jerry’s finger.

I disagree. I have used them. Once magazine is all it takes to get used to them and they are extremely fast, faster than most people.
 

xjma99

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I disagree. I have used them. Once magazine is all it takes to get used to them and they are extremely fast, faster than most people.
Well I did one mag, and I couldn’t make it run without hiccup. I could with some more time. Others with more experience made it sing....I also was dealing with a full magazine....not just six. I could maybe make six run well. But I wanted to dump the whole mag!!!
 
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This is why we need, I don't know pick a number I'll settle on 90%. But we should immediately can at least 90% of all law enforcement in the United States, federal, state and local. They serve no useful purpose any longer.
90% of all Fed,state and local police is a little steep but definitely 100% of the ATF. I always say, don’t those guys ever go after booze and smokes😂👍🏻
 

ddraper

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Well I did one mag, and I couldn’t make it run without hiccup. I could with some more time. Others with more experience made it sing....I also was dealing with a full magazine....not just six. I could maybe make six run well. But I wanted to dump the whole mag!!!

The first time I ever used one I had 30 round mags. First magazine I stopped after about 6-10 rounds because I wasn't prepared for the barrel lift. It took me by surprise. I regrouped and finished the mag. Second mag went smooth as it could. After blowing through 60 rounds so fast and with the price of ammo I had to stop. It was real fun but expensive.
 

xjma99

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90% of all Fed,state and local police is a little steep but definitely 100% of the ATF. I always say, don’t those guys ever go after booze and smokes😂👍🏻
I have friends that were arrested by ATF for bringing truckloads of cheap beer into mass from NH. They got slaps on the wrist, but lost all the beer.
 

ddraper

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I have friends that were arrested by ATF for bringing truckloads of cheap beer into mass from NH. They got slaps on the wrist, but lost all the beer.

I knew this guy who used to go down south and get truckloads of cigs to sell up here. He got bagged by the ATF and by the time they were done he was up on income tax evasion, sellings cigs without tax stamps, inter state commerce violations and all kinds of other crap. He went away for a long time and they confiscated all his money and everything he owned.
 

paul73

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And if the ATF continues to be favored in court they are looking for a costumer list of who bought one of those triggers.

this is getting beyond ridiculous with this tyranny.
It is ridiculous but judges are not making any decisions anymore that contradict unlawful edicts of administration or policies of government agencies. Separation of powers is a myth now.
Whole system is setup to achieve a single purpose, and your well-being ain’t it.
 

fencer

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but definitely 100% of the ATF. I always say, don’t those guys ever go after booze and smokes😂
Yeah, I know a guy that was buying cartons of smokes online from Israel. I think he got away with it for more than 3 years.
After a while he started buying Marlboros for other people and they caught up with him. They were pissed about the taxes. I don't remember the exact amount but know that he had to come up with somewhere in the neighborhood of $20k
 
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Yeah, I know a guy that was buying cartons of smokes online from Israel. I think he got away with it for more than 3 years.
After a while he started buying Marlboros for other people and they caught up with him. They were pissed about the taxes. I don't remember the exact amount but know that he had to come up with somewhere in the neighborhood of $20k
I knew a guy who was sorta doing this. Wasn’t reselling them just buying them for himself to smoke. I think the state actually caught up with him not feds. It’s amazing how when it comes to cigarettes and alcohol it’s basically just a slap on the wrist or pay some back taxes. God forbid u put a 15 & 15/16ths of an inch upper on your AR…
 

Dennis in MA

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It is ridiculous but judges are not making any decisions anymore that contradict unlawful edicts of administration or policies of government agencies. Separation of powers is a myth now.
Whole system is setup to achieve a single purpose, and your well-being ain’t it.

It's more along the lines of them making personal decisions instead of constitutional legal ones. It's a rare judge that will make a ruling against their personal beliefs due to their sworn oath. It shouldn't be. But it is. All of us have a line where we compromise. Where that line is is not often taken into account when a judge is up for appointment or election.

I was watching a L&O rerun yesterday. Some dirtbag kidnapped a kid. McCoy goes to the judge for some sort of search order or something. Before the scene, "She's left of Karl Marx. She won't give us anything. But we have to try."

I'm sorry. He had NO EVIDENCE and wanted to bust into someone's home. Just damn. I was cheering for the judge the entire episode. You go, girl! Stand up for our Constitutional rights.

Had this judge just been honest and said, "I see no constitutional basis to stop them from manufacturing this product, but I believe it's too dangerous to take a chance. The defendent is hereby ordered to cease production of this product." THEN I'd have respect. Because they'll at least be honest. Wrong, but honest. When they hide behind legalese, it rubs me the wrong way.
 

paul73

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more along the lines of them making personal decisions instead of constitutional legal ones
i generally agree with what you said, but in retrospect to the topic one cannot forget how exactly people become judges and where they come from, most of the times.
we are looking increasingly into a whole new generation or rachael rollinses to become judges. what verdicts will they master? your guess.
 

Dennis in MA

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And a whole generation of conservative guys and gals getting appointed. I concur. But I think in 230 years of jurisprudence in this country, it's common for a judge to ignore the constitution and rule based on feelings of fairness or whatever. Regardless of party. :(
 
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I wanted one of these for a retro build to really give it that Vietnam giggle switch feel, but it looks like I made the right choice in holding off.
 

Dennis in MA

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I really don't want one, and never wanted a bump stock either (stupid), as I can shoot an AR as fast as I can control it, but think it is total bull shit that they should try and shut them down.

I think that describes the vast majority of us.

I recall thinking about learning how to bump-fire my AK or SKS back when x39 was running $80-90/K. I never did because it seemed silly. And didn't want to accidentally chuck one over the berm. So getting one of these never made sense. Again, as I said earlier, it MIGHT be fun on a 9mm platform for a day or two. That's it.

But to each his own. Some people hunt stuff I'd never hunt. Not my place to say for them to stop.
 

fencer

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I recall thinking about learning how to bump-fire my AK or SKS back when x39 was running $80-90/K. I never did because it seemed silly. And didn't want to accidentally chuck one over the berm. So getting one of these never made sense. Again, as I said earlier, it MIGHT be fun on a 9mm platform for a day or two. That's it
I fired an AR with a bump stock. They move around a lot more than a select fire M4 or M16. You can keep rounds on a torso sized out to about 12 feet or so, but beyond that you are just wasting ammo.

Edit to add... Unless you are a psycho dick head who goes to Vegas and shoots into a crowd on concert goers from the 32nd floor.
 
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