Rare Breed Triggers Accused Of Creating "Machine Gun" Loses First Court Battle With ATF

Dennis in MA

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No no. I mean old-school bump firing. Put your SKS on your hip, middle finger in the trigger guard. Pull forward with your off-hand. Again, when a mag of x39 was $0.90 or so, it seemed like a reasonable waste of time. I just never tried it b/c the fear of berm-chucking.
 

nitsy33

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A friend of mine finally got his LTC after me hounding him for years,gonna get his first AK this weekend. He asked bout these but it got me thinking. With WOT and Graves both selling or going to sell similar triggers, have they and why havent they got C and D letters and just RB?
 

KBCraig

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Leave it to Colt to accidentally make binary triggers, and then issue a recall.

Recall? Wait, I thought the gun industry was totally immune from lawsuits!

 

Broccoli Iglesias

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Leave it to Colt to accidentally make binary triggers, and then issue a recall.

Recall? Wait, I thought the gun industry was totally immune from lawsuits!

You know there is some NES member freaking out right now because "Muh RiFle SpItS TwO BuLLiTs wITH OnE PuLl, Is DaT LegAl?"
 

not new guy

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That certainly makes it sound like they’re planning on charging people for possessing them, if only retailers who refuse to surrender them.

I wonder how this move will sit with the judge hearing the RB case. It’s still pending, right?
 
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KBCraig

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If you sign the document, you're claiming ownership and are subject to prosecution.

If you don't, they just seize your property; you can't sue to get it back, since you already said it wasn't yours.
 
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This sucks in many ways but one way was that rare breed just came out with a selectable triggers. So you had safe semi and then the forced reset option.


RC
 
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This is why we need, I don't know pick a number I'll settle on 90%. But we should immediately can at least 90% of all law enforcement in the United States, federal, state and local. They serve no useful purpose any longer.
Tell me how that works in any other part of the world?

Hell, they just 'defunded' law enforcement and cities are burning.
 

VetteGirlMA

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Tell me how that works in any other part of the world?

Hell, they just 'defunded' law enforcement and cities are burning.

Cities still burned when they weren't defunded. What purpose does law enforcement serve if it serves only at the whims and fancies of fickle politicians? A cop is no longer a cop he's a commisar, a political officer. Do you think for one second history will be on the side of law enforcement that engage in equity policing? "Do you know why I pulled you over?" "I was going 3 mph over the speed limit?" "Yes and while I'm writing you this ticket I need to make you watch this video regarding your privilege. By the way there's a $200 surcharge on this ticket due to your privilege" That's what the left wants and once they have it we will no longer have law enforcement. What shocks me is the number of leo's who would say "sounds good to me. Will I get overtime pay?"
 
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Cities still burned when they weren't defunded. What purpose does law enforcement serve if it serves only at the whims and fancies of fickle politicians? A cop is no longer a cop he's a commisar, a political officer. Do you think for one second history will be on the side of law enforcement that engage in equity policing? "Do you know why I pulled you over?" "I was going 3 mph over the speed limit?" "Yes and while I'm writing you this ticket I need to make you watch this video regarding your privilege. By the way there's a $200 surcharge on this ticket due to your privilege" That's what the left wants and once they have it we will no longer have law enforcement. What shocks me is the number of leo's who would say "sounds good to me. Will I get overtime pay?"
I'm saying I want a return to cops doing cop work. You think it's bad now, wait until the old school cops are gone and the new wave start. They don't have any idea what they are going to be told to do is a load of crap.

Look around, you think cops are bad? Look at all the Karens who got a taste of power during the Kung Flu. Those people are still looking for new ways to stick their noses into your life.
 

VetteGirlMA

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I'm saying I want a return to cops doing cop work. You think it's bad now, wait until the old school cops are gone and the new wave start. They don't have any idea what they are going to be told to do is a load of crap.

Look around, you think cops are bad? Look at all the Karens who got a taste of power during the Kung Flu. Those people are still looking for new ways to stick their noses into your life.

Yeah but Karen can't arrest me if she has a hissy fit lol. I want cops being cops too. When I was a kid and I saw a police cruiser drive by I would wave and say hi. Today I turn my back on them and ignore them. I want old school when people knew the police officers in their cities by name, but I also want changes. I want an absolute zero tolerance for no knock raids, civil asset forfeiture, military equipment, brutality and middle of the night crap. Even our local PD in western mass was red faced when people found that they were buying surplus grenade launchers from the military. That's not some trailer park podunk Arkansas, that's right here in Massachusetts. The craze for firepower is just as prevalent here as it is in some far away nowhere land.

I saw what happened during the BLM protests. I have a bat sh*t crazy city counselor here and when the George Floyd riots started he organized a protest outside my local police headquarters. I know you probably won't believe this but I actually stood up for the cops. I said to him why are you stirring the pot? We don't have a police problem here. Why are you trying to antagonize a problem? But what scares me is that increasingly police chiefs who are by their nature political animals will abide by the wishes of the mayor and city council and batsh*t crazy activists. Remember I like many other people here live in the middle of moonbat heaven. I thought to myself what if that nutty city counselor wants to bring antifa/blm here and start ripping down and burning down my city? What if the chief of police orders the cops to stand down? Where does that leave me when I dial 911? No one will help me and I'm the goddam taxpayer in this equation. If these bozos started tossing molotov cocktails at my house the local police would come and arrest me for defending myself and gladly laid down in a submissive pose afterwards for the BLM protestors. Trust is a 2 way street my friend, it's not all I give and give and the cops don't have to. Sorry if I demand it to be both ways.

All of my negative views of the police have happened in the last few years because the internet is shining a bright light on it. It's a stench that police can't walk away from now. They allowed themselves to be pawns for politicians, it's a position in which there is no winning move. I can see this playing out right now in Ottawa at the trucker protest. Those cops are between a rock and a hard place and it's become increasingly more impossible to "not" act at the behest of the government. You see the politicians are not doing their jobs and increasingly relying on police to fix the problems that they themselves created. This puts police in the awkward position of pushing around good decent people and they know it. So they push around good people maybe toss a few in jail, maybe even achieve a victory btu at what cost? Lefties hate the cops and now righties are going to hate the cops. It's a lose-lose scenario.

Like I said in another thread 2 cops showed up at my front door one day (a young cop and an old cop) and I was going to be happy to cooperate to let them view the video/audio stream from my security cameras. Bear in mind I have 2 dogs in my house and it *is* my house (therefore my rules) and I don't want my dogs shot for officer safety reasons. Besides these cop2 could hear my dogs barking inside. I would have been happy to help but the young cop was being very aggressive and if these guys wanted help they don't need to be aggressive to people they are asking for help from. I was just about ready to tell him to buy a mirror, look in it and if he sees an a**hole then the mirror works. After they left I spent all of 5 minutes looking at the camera data from the date and time they asked and then said, what the hell am I helping this a**hole for? See, like I said flies, honey, vinegar.

If we keep going the way we're going with an escalation of violence and police needing to be outfitted like a marine landing on Utah beach then I want to escalate it from the citizen side. It's the only safe way for people to be protected from overly aggressive policing. If the only thing that stops a no knock raid is someone manning a tank in the front yard with machine guns and a 75 mm cannon then so be it. That's the price for wanting to do no knock raids. To paraphrase silence of the lambs 'It leaves people alone or else it gets the cannon'. Here's my list of what I feel the problems are:

IncidentWhat police say afterwards
Choking out a woman who was not wearing a mask. I was gobsmacked watching a cop grab a young woman by the neck, start choking and pick her off the ground. At that moment that guy is no longer a cop and use of a firearm is justified.We reviewed our department policy and found that it was within reason.
A wellness check on an elderly person who ends up being wellness checked into the afterlifeOh well those sort of things just happen sometimes.
Police raids at the wrong address and someone is killedWe reviewed our department policy and found that it was within reason. The subject was resisting.
No knock raids for a person that does not live at the same address as the raid - bad intelAll policies were followed. We're sorry that we just blew up the house but because of exigent circumstances we can't do anything. Sorry you lost your home. Sucks to be you.
Civil asset forfeitureWe held this guy on the side of the road for 12 hours over a broken tail light, rifled through his belongings, found $1000 tucked into a bible. Subject claimed it was to buy an engagement but Fido was going nuts sniffing the car so it was drug money even though the motorist said they had a dog in heat they took to the vets yesterday. Good luck suing us to get your money back, I got to go make it rain back at the station.
Cops who put so much pressure on someone's back that their spine snaps and they are crippled for life, end result a life ruined in seconds.Department police, qualified immunity at the civil trial. Not once have I ever and I mean ever seen a cop say, hey I know I did this to you how can I help. You know the human thing to do. Nope it's always the same pull in the head and legs like a turtle and hope it all passes over.
Cops beating up little kids - any grown man cop or otherwise who tosses around a little kid belongs on the sex offender registry for life, no appeals, no reversals, you're there, you spend the rest of your life shoveling mule sh*t. That's the price of wearing the badge.All department policies were followed and it was a reasonable use of force.
Police pursuits where innocent people are harmed by police wrongdoingWell they should have stayed home and ordered take out.
Shutting down a womans beauty salon when she needs the money the most.We're just following orders. (same thing that Herman Goering said in 1946 at his trial). I got my paycheck, sucks to be you, enjoy starving.

The point here is it's not enough to just cut a check. Some things can't be fixed and saying "it's just one of those things" ins't going to work anymore. Hope that helps.
 

71montess

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Yeah but Karen can't arrest me if she has a hissy fit lol. I want cops being cops too. When I was a kid and I saw a police cruiser drive by I would wave and say hi. Today I turn my back on them and ignore them. I want old school when people knew the police officers in their cities by name, but I also want changes. I want an absolute zero tolerance for no knock raids, civil asset forfeiture, military equipment, brutality and middle of the night crap. Even our local PD in western mass was red faced when people found that they were buying surplus grenade launchers from the military. That's not some trailer park podunk Arkansas, that's right here in Massachusetts. The craze for firepower is just as prevalent here as it is in some far away nowhere land.

I saw what happened during the BLM protests. I have a bat sh*t crazy city counselor here and when the George Floyd riots started he organized a protest outside my local police headquarters. I know you probably won't believe this but I actually stood up for the cops. I said to him why are you stirring the pot? We don't have a police problem here. Why are you trying to antagonize a problem? But what scares me is that increasingly police chiefs who are by their nature political animals will abide by the wishes of the mayor and city council and batsh*t crazy activists. Remember I like many other people here live in the middle of moonbat heaven. I thought to myself what if that nutty city counselor wants to bring antifa/blm here and start ripping down and burning down my city? What if the chief of police orders the cops to stand down? Where does that leave me when I dial 911? No one will help me and I'm the goddam taxpayer in this equation. If these bozos started tossing molotov cocktails at my house the local police would come and arrest me for defending myself and gladly laid down in a submissive pose afterwards for the BLM protestors. Trust is a 2 way street my friend, it's not all I give and give and the cops don't have to. Sorry if I demand it to be both ways.

All of my negative views of the police have happened in the last few years because the internet is shining a bright light on it. It's a stench that police can't walk away from now. They allowed themselves to be pawns for politicians, it's a position in which there is no winning move. I can see this playing out right now in Ottawa at the trucker protest. Those cops are between a rock and a hard place and it's become increasingly more impossible to "not" act at the behest of the government. You see the politicians are not doing their jobs and increasingly relying on police to fix the problems that they themselves created. This puts police in the awkward position of pushing around good decent people and they know it. So they push around good people maybe toss a few in jail, maybe even achieve a victory btu at what cost? Lefties hate the cops and now righties are going to hate the cops. It's a lose-lose scenario.

Like I said in another thread 2 cops showed up at my front door one day (a young cop and an old cop) and I was going to be happy to cooperate to let them view the video/audio stream from my security cameras. Bear in mind I have 2 dogs in my house and it *is* my house (therefore my rules) and I don't want my dogs shot for officer safety reasons. Besides these cop2 could hear my dogs barking inside. I would have been happy to help but the young cop was being very aggressive and if these guys wanted help they don't need to be aggressive to people they are asking for help from. I was just about ready to tell him to buy a mirror, look in it and if he sees an a**hole then the mirror works. After they left I spent all of 5 minutes looking at the camera data from the date and time they asked and then said, what the hell am I helping this a**hole for? See, like I said flies, honey, vinegar.

If we keep going the way we're going with an escalation of violence and police needing to be outfitted like a marine landing on Utah beach then I want to escalate it from the citizen side. It's the only safe way for people to be protected from overly aggressive policing. If the only thing that stops a no knock raid is someone manning a tank in the front yard with machine guns and a 75 mm cannon then so be it. That's the price for wanting to do no knock raids. To paraphrase silence of the lambs 'It leaves people alone or else it gets the cannon'. Here's my list of what I feel the problems are:

IncidentWhat police say afterwards
Choking out a woman who was not wearing a mask. I was gobsmacked watching a cop grab a young woman by the neck, start choking and pick her off the ground. At that moment that guy is no longer a cop and use of a firearm is justified.We reviewed our department policy and found that it was within reason.
A wellness check on an elderly person who ends up being wellness checked into the afterlifeOh well those sort of things just happen sometimes.
Police raids at the wrong address and someone is killedWe reviewed our department policy and found that it was within reason. The subject was resisting.
No knock raids for a person that does not live at the same address as the raid - bad intelAll policies were followed. We're sorry that we just blew up the house but because of exigent circumstances we can't do anything. Sorry you lost your home. Sucks to be you.
Civil asset forfeitureWe held this guy on the side of the road for 12 hours over a broken tail light, rifled through his belongings, found $1000 tucked into a bible. Subject claimed it was to buy an engagement but Fido was going nuts sniffing the car so it was drug money even though the motorist said they had a dog in heat they took to the vets yesterday. Good luck suing us to get your money back, I got to go make it rain back at the station.
Cops who put so much pressure on someone's back that their spine snaps and they are crippled for life, end result a life ruined in seconds.Department police, qualified immunity at the civil trial. Not once have I ever and I mean ever seen a cop say, hey I know I did this to you how can I help. You know the human thing to do. Nope it's always the same pull in the head and legs like a turtle and hope it all passes over.
Cops beating up little kids - any grown man cop or otherwise who tosses around a little kid belongs on the sex offender registry for life, no appeals, no reversals, you're there, you spend the rest of your life shoveling mule sh*t. That's the price of wearing the badge.All department policies were followed and it was a reasonable use of force.
Police pursuits where innocent people are harmed by police wrongdoingWell they should have stayed home and ordered take out.
Shutting down a womans beauty salon when she needs the money the most.We're just following orders. (same thing that Herman Goering said in 1946 at his trial). I got my paycheck, sucks to be you, enjoy starving.

The point here is it's not enough to just cut a check. Some things can't be fixed and saying "it's just one of those things" ins't going to work anymore. Hope that helps.
And don't forget, cops all wear sunglasses now as though they were Sean Penn.
 

NHKevin

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Yeah but Karen can't arrest me if she has a hissy fit lol. I want cops being cops too. When I was a kid and I saw a police cruiser drive by I would wave and say hi. Today I turn my back on them and ignore them. I want old school when people knew the police officers in their cities by name, but I also want changes. I want an absolute zero tolerance for no knock raids, civil asset forfeiture, military equipment, brutality and middle of the night crap. Even our local PD in western mass was red faced when people found that they were buying surplus grenade launchers from the military. That's not some trailer park podunk Arkansas, that's right here in Massachusetts. The craze for firepower is just as prevalent here as it is in some far away nowhere land.

I saw what happened during the BLM protests. I have a bat sh*t crazy city counselor here and when the George Floyd riots started he organized a protest outside my local police headquarters. I know you probably won't believe this but I actually stood up for the cops. I said to him why are you stirring the pot? We don't have a police problem here. Why are you trying to antagonize a problem? But what scares me is that increasingly police chiefs who are by their nature political animals will abide by the wishes of the mayor and city council and batsh*t crazy activists. Remember I like many other people here live in the middle of moonbat heaven. I thought to myself what if that nutty city counselor wants to bring antifa/blm here and start ripping down and burning down my city? What if the chief of police orders the cops to stand down? Where does that leave me when I dial 911? No one will help me and I'm the goddam taxpayer in this equation. If these bozos started tossing molotov cocktails at my house the local police would come and arrest me for defending myself and gladly laid down in a submissive pose afterwards for the BLM protestors. Trust is a 2 way street my friend, it's not all I give and give and the cops don't have to. Sorry if I demand it to be both ways.

All of my negative views of the police have happened in the last few years because the internet is shining a bright light on it. It's a stench that police can't walk away from now. They allowed themselves to be pawns for politicians, it's a position in which there is no winning move. I can see this playing out right now in Ottawa at the trucker protest. Those cops are between a rock and a hard place and it's become increasingly more impossible to "not" act at the behest of the government. You see the politicians are not doing their jobs and increasingly relying on police to fix the problems that they themselves created. This puts police in the awkward position of pushing around good decent people and they know it. So they push around good people maybe toss a few in jail, maybe even achieve a victory btu at what cost? Lefties hate the cops and now righties are going to hate the cops. It's a lose-lose scenario.

Like I said in another thread 2 cops showed up at my front door one day (a young cop and an old cop) and I was going to be happy to cooperate to let them view the video/audio stream from my security cameras. Bear in mind I have 2 dogs in my house and it *is* my house (therefore my rules) and I don't want my dogs shot for officer safety reasons. Besides these cop2 could hear my dogs barking inside. I would have been happy to help but the young cop was being very aggressive and if these guys wanted help they don't need to be aggressive to people they are asking for help from. I was just about ready to tell him to buy a mirror, look in it and if he sees an a**hole then the mirror works. After they left I spent all of 5 minutes looking at the camera data from the date and time they asked and then said, what the hell am I helping this a**hole for? See, like I said flies, honey, vinegar.

If we keep going the way we're going with an escalation of violence and police needing to be outfitted like a marine landing on Utah beach then I want to escalate it from the citizen side. It's the only safe way for people to be protected from overly aggressive policing. If the only thing that stops a no knock raid is someone manning a tank in the front yard with machine guns and a 75 mm cannon then so be it. That's the price for wanting to do no knock raids. To paraphrase silence of the lambs 'It leaves people alone or else it gets the cannon'. Here's my list of what I feel the problems are:

IncidentWhat police say afterwards
Choking out a woman who was not wearing a mask. I was gobsmacked watching a cop grab a young woman by the neck, start choking and pick her off the ground. At that moment that guy is no longer a cop and use of a firearm is justified.We reviewed our department policy and found that it was within reason.
A wellness check on an elderly person who ends up being wellness checked into the afterlifeOh well those sort of things just happen sometimes.
Police raids at the wrong address and someone is killedWe reviewed our department policy and found that it was within reason. The subject was resisting.
No knock raids for a person that does not live at the same address as the raid - bad intelAll policies were followed. We're sorry that we just blew up the house but because of exigent circumstances we can't do anything. Sorry you lost your home. Sucks to be you.
Civil asset forfeitureWe held this guy on the side of the road for 12 hours over a broken tail light, rifled through his belongings, found $1000 tucked into a bible. Subject claimed it was to buy an engagement but Fido was going nuts sniffing the car so it was drug money even though the motorist said they had a dog in heat they took to the vets yesterday. Good luck suing us to get your money back, I got to go make it rain back at the station.
Cops who put so much pressure on someone's back that their spine snaps and they are crippled for life, end result a life ruined in seconds.Department police, qualified immunity at the civil trial. Not once have I ever and I mean ever seen a cop say, hey I know I did this to you how can I help. You know the human thing to do. Nope it's always the same pull in the head and legs like a turtle and hope it all passes over.
Cops beating up little kids - any grown man cop or otherwise who tosses around a little kid belongs on the sex offender registry for life, no appeals, no reversals, you're there, you spend the rest of your life shoveling mule sh*t. That's the price of wearing the badge.All department policies were followed and it was a reasonable use of force.
Police pursuits where innocent people are harmed by police wrongdoingWell they should have stayed home and ordered take out.
Shutting down a womans beauty salon when she needs the money the most.We're just following orders. (same thing that Herman Goering said in 1946 at his trial). I got my paycheck, sucks to be you, enjoy starving.

The point here is it's not enough to just cut a check. Some things can't be fixed and saying "it's just one of those things" ins't going to work anymore. Hope that helps.
Agreed on all counts, but...
If you were offered a grenade launcher - you would decline it?
 

Mesatchornug

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I'm still getting emails from Rare Breed:


Are they banned or not???
It's going to be some time until you can feel "safe" in having an answer. Maybe try emailing their legal team? Surely they'll know more than any of us can.

Their product was developed to troll the ATF. Now the AFT has responded. They were (apparently) always planning to take this as far through the courts as they can.
 
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So is my Franklin Armory binary trigger next on the AFT's "we changed our opinion" hit list ? If the AFT comes knocking on my door i think ill just give them a bag of misc 2 stage trigger group parts in the original Franklin package , and goodbye slam the door.
 

Reptile

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It's going to be some time until you can feel "safe" in having an answer. Maybe try emailing their legal team? Surely they'll know more than any of us can.

Their product was developed to troll the ATF. Now the AFT has responded. They were (apparently) always planning to take this as far through the courts as they can.
ATF is going after buyers.

Wasn't Rare Breed told to give the ATF a list of all the buyers?
The ATF sent letters out to everybody telling them to turn them in or suffer dog loss.

What if you buy this trigger at a gun show for cash?
Could a person get in trouble?

What is some enterprising fellow placed a wholesale order from Rare Breed to sell them at a gun show?
No way to get them back, right?
 

Mesatchornug

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ATF is going after buyers.

Wasn't Rare Breed told to give the ATF a list of all the buyers?
The ATF sent letters out to everybody telling them to turn them in or suffer dog loss.

What if you buy this trigger at a gun show for cash?
Could a person get in trouble?

What is some enterprising fellow placed a wholesale order from Rare Breed to sell them at a gun show?
No way to get them back, right?
Nobody here can answer you. There's so much variable reporting, nobody likely even knows the latest state of things.

If you want to know the state of their court journey, contact Rare Breed.

If you want to be safe, get out of the gun hobby; it's not about to be more supported by our government.
 

safetyfirst2125

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Just got an email from these guys so I assume they’re still in business.

Or maybe…. they’ve been relocated to the ATF HQ office on DC now and some nice ATF agent wants to get me possessing one of these 😎
 

Reptile

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Just got an email from these guys so I assume they’re still in business.

Or maybe…. they’ve been relocated to the ATF HQ office on DC now and some nice ATF agent wants to get me possessing one of these 😎
Didn't they provide a list of all the buyers to the ATF?

They are still selling these triggers?

Does not sold wise to purchase.
 

Greg

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"some forced reset triggers" lol

Guess we find out which ones when the ATF starts sending letters to people who bought them online demanding they register the FRT as a firearm, or register as a MG if that is what they determine it to be if you are a properly licensed FFL.. Or, send in to ATF for destruction.
 
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