Rare Breed Triggers Accused Of Creating "Machine Gun" Loses First Court Battle With ATF

one-eyed Jack

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Why can't folks just have FUN? My Ak son tells me that when a bump stock or something like this comes along, one guy will buy one, the local machine shop will make a bunch of them, they all chip in for 100 lbs of tannerite, a couple of kegs of beer, a big bag of Whacky weed, go off into the muskeg where only a moose will go on their wheelers and have a hell of a party. That's FUN. Jack.
 

Rob Boudrie

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Yeah. "This won't cause undue economic harm." Ummmm, it's THEIR ONLY PRODUCT! LOL

I'm not a fan of this trigger. It seems stupid. But, based on the current law, it's not against the law. In addition, the judge can't rule that this doesn't cause undue harm just because it might be "dangerous." That's now how rights work. What did the scared criers say? Everybody wants to rule the world?
The "undue harm" is the units that will be in the possession of commoners if the ATF prevails in its position.
 

KBCraig

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"expel more than one shot, with a single continuous pull"

I thought the FRT's fired upon pull THEN upon release.. that's not 'a single continuous pull'
That's the binary trigger (one shot on pull, one shot on release).

The FRT (as the name implies) forces the trigger to reset. It fires when pulled, not on release. It forces the trigger forward to reset, and if you maintain rearward pressure on the trigger, you will pull the trigger again.

Each shot does require a separate function of the trigger. Functionally, it's like bump-firing, except it all happens within the fire control group.
 
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"expel more than one shot, with a single continuous pull"

I thought the FRT's fired upon pull THEN upon release.. that's not 'a single continuous pull'
No, that's a 'binary' trigger, different animal.

FRT does just what 'forced reset' implies, the reciprocating bolt forces the trigger forward, resetting it against/in spite of the backward force applied by your finger.
So as long as you apply continuous rearward pressure on the trigger, it just keeps pushing your finger forward to reset and cycling of the action continues.
 
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"expel more than one shot, with a single continuous pull"

I thought the FRT's fired upon pull THEN upon release.. that's not 'a single continuous pull'
Thats a binary.

FRT's shoot on pull, then push your finger to force the reset and fire on pull again.

There might be a FRT binary, but I think those waters would be super murky legally speaking as you're not consciously setting off the reset round.

With that said though- what triggers are FRT's with a disconnector?
 

Reptile

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I wish the ATF would just say which ones are illegal.

Is the Rare Breed Trigger illegal?

If so just come out and say it.

It seems they want to keep things as ambiguous as possible so they can come after whoever they want.
Mass gun laws are like this as well.

Do I have to be the idiot who calls up on a recorded line and ask the ATF, myself? Talk about opening a can of worms.

I expect the experts to weigh in.

I'll tell you one thing - if I got the go ahead from ATF that Rare Breed Triggers are legal - I'll buy up a ton for myself. Just for the novelty.

Sh*t or get off the pot, ATF. Stop beating around the bush and come out with a ruling.

In all honesty, I would never use one of these. I don't have the food to feed such a beast and don't want to dedicate a lower for such a trigger.

Hoping somebody can clarify the legalities of this...

 

xjma99

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Why can't folks just have FUN? My Ak son tells me that when a bump stock or something like this comes along, one guy will buy one, the local machine shop will make a bunch of them, they all chip in for 100 lbs of tannerite, a couple of kegs of beer, a big bag of Whacky weed, go off into the muskeg where only a moose will go on their wheelers and have a hell of a party. That's FUN. Jack.
Apparently you’ve never New Hampshired.
 

xjma99

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I wish the ATF would just say which ones are illegal.

Is the Rare Breed Trigger illegal?

If so just come out and say it.

It seems they want to keep things as ambiguous as possible so they can come after whoever they want.
Mass gun laws are like this as well.

Do I have to be the idiot who calls up on a recorded line and ask the ATF, myself? Talk about opening a can of worms.

I expect the experts to weigh in.

I'll tell you one thing - if I got the go ahead from ATF that Rare Breed Triggers are legal - I'll buy up a ton for myself. Just for the novelty.

Sh*t or get off the pot, ATF. Stop beating around the bush and come out with a ruling.

In all honesty, I would never use one of these. I don't have the food to feed such a beast and don't want to dedicate a lower for such a trigger.

Hoping somebody can clarify the legalities of this...

Dedicated lower? Have you never swapped an AR trigger?? I know for this you have to change selector....OMG, you need to drop the grip also!! My 7yo can do this.
 

VetteGirlMA

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I don't know about anyone else but is all of this beginning to sound like a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I mean we're getting down to how many inch pounds of torque must be applied to a screw in a gun otherwise it's illegal. All this sub-atomic level nitpicking over the definitions of words and then defining what it means. I mean where are these guys going to go next? Counting the number of electrons in each atom of steel? "Oh my god agent Steve, arrest that guy. He has 3 extra electrons in the steel of this gun. That makes them super duper cop killer electrons and NFA items". Where exactly does the insanity end and we get to the point where we say "Okay well you gave it your best effort, time to start refocusing in on a career in pool cleaning."
 

groundscrapers

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I don't know about anyone else but is all of this beginning to sound like a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I mean we're getting down to how many inch pounds of torque must be applied to a screw in a gun otherwise it's illegal. All this sub-atomic level nitpicking over the definitions of words and then defining what it means. I mean where are these guys going to go next? Counting the number of electrons in each atom of steel? "Oh my god agent Steve, arrest that guy. He has 3 extra electrons in the steel of this gun. That makes them super duper cop killer electrons and NFA items". Where exactly does the insanity end and we get to the point where we say "Okay well you gave it your best effort, time to start refocusing in on a career in pool cleaning."
if you think this is mumbo jumbo you must be new to shooting lol. The atf declared choir boy scrubs to be silencers, shoelaces and cordless drills to be machine guns, etc... These triggers were always destined to be banned but the intent was to spur the eventual legal challenge. They operate like an atkins accelerator which was banned years ago.
 

Darksideblues42

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Here is an example of an FRT type trigger in a paintball application.

The Airgun Designs Automag X-Valve uses a portion of the dump gas to reset the sear. This is called "Reactive Trigger" or "RT".

If you get good enough, you can find the sweet spot where you just need to get the trigger depressed with just the right pressure to basically dump a loader in no time flat.



View: https://youtu.be/4uOfKUk9eKY
 

Greg

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I don't know about anyone else but is all of this beginning to sound like a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I mean we're getting down to how many inch pounds of torque must be applied to a screw in a gun otherwise it's illegal. All this sub-atomic level nitpicking over the definitions of words and then defining what it means. I mean where are these guys going to go next? Counting the number of electrons in each atom of steel? "Oh my god agent Steve, arrest that guy. He has 3 extra electrons in the steel of this gun. That makes them super duper cop killer electrons and NFA items". Where exactly does the insanity end and we get to the point where we say "Okay well you gave it your best effort, time to start refocusing in on a career in pool cleaning."
You must be new to the world of guns.
 
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Here is an example of an FRT type trigger in a paintball application.

The Airgun Designs Automag X-Valve uses a portion of the dump gas to reset the sear. This is called "Reactive Trigger" or "RT".

If you get good enough, you can find the sweet spot where you just need to get the trigger depressed with just the right pressure to basically dump a loader in no time flat.



View: https://youtu.be/4uOfKUk9eKY

That throws me back.
How bout you @Frizzle Fry
 
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