Re-applying for pistol permit

[Jude Thaddeus]

I been thinking (I know, dangerous) and was wondering if this would work for someone that has been denied a pistol permit in NH. Seeing that they were denied before, could they re-apply at a later date and have the "clock start over" for appeal? Would the new denial give the person another stab at appeals or would this be a big waste of time?

 

[appraiser]

How the hell do you get denied in NH?

Unless you are a felon, or have a restraining order out against you how does that happen?

Heck even I could get one in NH !

 

[terraformer]

I been thinking (I know, dangerous) and was wondering if this would work for someone that has been denied a pistol permit in NH. Seeing that they were denied before, could they re-apply at a later date and have the "clock start over" for appeal? Would the new denial give the person another stab at appeals or would this be a big waste of time?

Don't. If you were denied in NH, you very likely have one hell of a wart on your record. We have hightower being appealed in MA. Non sequitor? No, it's actually very relevant. We share a circuit. Our case will solve your problem. Just sit tight.

 

[terraformer]

How the hell do you get denied in NH?

Unless you are a felon, or have a restraining order out against you how does that happen?

Heck even I could get one in NH !

NH has the same suitability language MA does but only a handful of chiefs exercise discretion using it.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Terraformer, I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, but I can't see how this case will solve the issue of discretionary license issuing for "disqualified persons, especially seeing that the plaintiff in the Hightower case has no criminal record and was revoked without due process. People that have been denied have the option to appeal the decision in NH in district court (I don't know if you can in MA). This is the due process that Hightower was denied.
What if the individual in my OP moved? Would you still advise to not apply to the new police chief? Looking through NH law, reapplying after being denied looks like it would allow for a new appeals process to start. Of course, this would all be settled if CC was passed.

 

[terraformer]

Terraformer, I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, but I can't see how this case will solve the issue of discretionary license issuing for "disqualified persons, especially seeing that the plaintiff in the Hightower case has no criminal record and was revoked without due process. People that have been denied have the option to appeal the decision in NH in district court (I don't know if you can in MA). This is the due process that Hightower was denied.
What if the individual in my OP moved? Would you still advise to not apply to the new police chief? Looking through NH law, reapplying after being denied looks like it would allow for a new appeals process to start. Of course, this would all be settled if CC was passed.

Not true on hightower. You are reading that case wrong or don't understand that substantive due process is a doctrine and not really a procedural thing. Procedural due process is another thing, and hightower argues for a better version of that as well, but the hightower case also asks for a judgement stating that unfettered discretion in denying permits to otherwise statutorily allowed persons is not constitutional.

Now, I am assuming you are not statutorily disqualified in NH and that this is a discretionary licensing case. If I am wrong on that, let me know.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

You're assumption is correct. Discretionary licensing was the issue for my denial. I will be moving in the next month or so and am considering re-applying. Of course, if this will not give me another crack at appeal, then I will not.

 

[06LemansC6]

You're assumption is correct. Discretionary licensing was the issue for my denial. I will be moving in the next month or so and am considering re-applying. Of course, if this will not give me another crack at appeal, then I will not.

What town in NH?

I don't agree that the suitability language is the same as MA. NH is a shall issue state.....My understanding is the COP has to have a reasonable cause for denial. My understanding is if your have a clean record any NH COP that attempts a denial doesn't have a leg to stand on, of course you would need to actually appeal the decision.

I got my P&R permit in NH within 4 hours of submitting the application.

 

[terraformer]

MA Statute:

appears that the applicant is a suitable person to be issued such license

NH Statute:

and that the applicant is a suitable person to be licensed

where the NH SP states that anyone not falling into to the federal prohibited person definition is to be deemed suitable. That little bit is how the two states differ but the courts are starting to uphold suitability denials where the person does not fall into the prohibited person definition. NH is shall issue in the sense that there is a practice to be shall issue. But the statute has the potential to be abused and some southern towns are starting to.

Don't get hung up on shall v. may. CO uses the word "shall" in it's permit language but then has the suitable person language in there too. Guess what, Denver and a few other moon bat strongholds are starting to deny.

 

[terraformer]

You're assumption is correct. Discretionary licensing was the issue for my denial. I will be moving in the next month or so and am considering re-applying. Of course, if this will not give me another crack at appeal, then I will not.

By all means, reapply in the new town. I don't want to dissuade you from applying somewhere. I am just saying to please consider carefully staying out of federal court. I promise you, if we can't overturn our discretionary licensing, you won't be able to kill off the discretionary licensing language up there.

 

[06LemansC6]

where the NH SP states that anyone not falling into to the federal prohibited person definition is to be deemed suitable. That little bit is how the two states differ but the courts are starting to uphold suitability denials where the person does not fall into the prohibited person definition.

Any cites on this? I've heard of only one or two people being denied for "suitability" in NH. The ones that I have heard of pretty much deserved it.

 

[terraformer]

Any cites on this? I've heard of only one or two people being denied for "suitability" in NH. The ones that I have heard of pretty much deserved it.

So you have heard of people being denied on suitability but then want me to dig up cites? I quoted RSA 159:6 above.

And believe me, I am sure the CLEOs felt the "dirtbags" deserved it, as do you apparently, but that doesn't make it right nor make NH all of a sudden 100% statutorily shall issue. Because if someone "deserved" to be suitability denied, then there needs to be a way to deny them based on suitability. Hence, it proves my point.

I am not saying NH sucks, or that the situation up there is really all that bad nor anywhere as bad as in MA, but let's face it, the shit MA has started off where only the dirtbags (and the blacks, the irish, the italians and the spics) got denied. Now I am betting every CLEO in MA thinks that the people they deny "deserve" it. I am also betting that left unchecked in NH, the people getting denied will get less and less deserving over time. It's called the slippery slope.

 

[SamH]

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...reme-court-upheld-CCW-denial-in-New-Hampshire

During a three-hour District Court hearing on the matter last July, Magnant testified that during four-plus years as police chief, he approved an estimated 450 concealed carry licenses and denied just two, including Roseberry’s. Noting New Hampshire’s history of supporting Second Amendment rights, Sullivan said Wednesday that the chief’s denial was “difficult” and “to be commended.”

 

[terraformer]

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...reme-court-upheld-CCW-denial-in-New-Hampshire

During a three-hour District Court hearing on the matter last July, Magnant testified that during four-plus years as police chief, he approved an estimated 450 concealed carry licenses and denied just two, including Roseberry’s. Noting New Hampshire’s history of supporting Second Amendment rights, Sullivan said Wednesday that the chief’s denial was “difficult” and “to be commended.”

And this is why trying to fight this up there directly without something to work from in a jurisdiction where the chief can barely justify their behavior makes a NH denial case so much weaker. You will find yourself up against a repentant sinner who really has the children's best interest at heart.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

As an update to this, I have completed my move and reapplied for my pistol permit. It has been a couple days before a week and my references or myself have not been contacted. I am almost 100% certain I will be denied. Although, I did go into this not expecting to receive it.

 

[Mr Weebles]

If you've got some old BS misdemeanor on your record, put in the paperwork for an expungement.

It's easy, and you don't need a lawyer.

PM me if you need any tips.

 

[drgrant]

As an update to this, I have completed my move and reapplied for my pistol permit. It has been a couple days before a week and my references or myself have not been contacted. I am almost 100% certain I will be denied. Although, I did go into this not expecting to receive it.

So why would you think that every chief would view the suitability issue the same way? So I am guessing this is some crud on your record, that while not a statutory DQ, still "looks bad" ?

-Mike

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

To top it off, I just got my wife's car registration renewal notice from our OLD town. So the change of address forms that we submitted we're never entered in the system. No wonder I haven't heard anything. I don't even know how to fix this issue. The expungement is a good idea if I hadn't been denied before (which I was) so even if they were expunged, the "crud" would still be seen on the old denial letter.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Officer came by today while I was at the junkyard. My wife said he has a sealed envelope for me and could not give it to her. I'll keep you posted. I hate to say this but I'm betting I have been denied again.

 

[lord1234]

It would be nice if you would be willing if you would share what problems/reasons they have for dq'ing you. Obviously you have some sort of statuatory disqualifier?

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Well, I called it. Also, I do not have a statutory dis qualifier, but a discretionary CoP. I have no felonies, no DV issues, I do have a few misdemeanors, but again nothing that prohibits myself from owning a firearm federally or that SHOULD keep me from being issued a Pistol Permit. I would state exactly what I have on my record but, honestly, I am ashamed that I was stupid enough to do them and don't want to disclose them.

 

[drgrant]

Well, I called it. Also, I do not have a statutory dis qualifier, but a discretionary CoP. I have no felonies, no DV issues, I do have a few misdemeanors, but again nothing that prohibits myself from owning a firearm federally or that SHOULD keep me from being issued a Pistol Permit. I would state exactly what I have on my record but, honestly, I am ashamed that I was stupid enough to do them and don't want to disclose them.

Are you not disclosing them to the issuing authority? It may not be required in NH for things that don't count, but you may be doing yourself a disservice by not trying to explain them to the CoP, particularly if those issues are in the past. You may be getting DQed over something that could be dealt with a hot cup of coffee and a handshake. (I don't know the CLEOs in your situation, but I would assume that at least some of them in NH are normal people. ) Remember if you're not saying anything, all the CLEO has to go by is whatever pops up on the BOP or III or whatever the hell it is that they use to pick out your record. Records and court proceedings do not tell the whole story, but if you tell them nothing, then that's all they have to go by. They will judge you by "that" and nothing else.

BTW in saying this I am IN NO WAY saying that anyone should ever have to do this crap in order to be able to carry a pistol. I'm merely suggesting that there might be another way to get the license you want without getting a non-statutory denial in the process.

-Mike

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Mike,
I wrote a two page letter explaining everything. I even tried to make an appointment to speak with him in person. He never called. Its sad to see this attitude of discretionary licensing anywhere, especially where the statute is for the applicant if it goes to court. Although, I find it hard to believe that a district judge that deals with the chief extensively would go against him and force him to issue a permit.

 

[mikem317]

Well, there's always the OC route...

 

[06LemansC6]

Mike,
I wrote a two page letter explaining everything. I even tried to make an appointment to speak with him in person. He never called. Its sad to see this attitude of discretionary licensing anywhere, especially where the statute is for the applicant if it goes to court. Although, I find it hard to believe that a district judge that deals with the chief extensively would go against him and force him to issue a permit.

What are you in Hudson or New Boston? I so seldom hear of such issues in NH. Typically you either qualify or you don't. So glad I live in my little town. My CoP issued my last permit the same day I applied.

 

[drgrant]

Well, there's always the OC route...

"Permit-Less" OC is (kinda) worthless in NH because every time you step into a vehicle with a loaded gun, without the p/r license you break the law.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Mike,
I wrote a two page letter explaining everything. I even tried to make an appointment to speak with him in person. He never called. Its sad to see this attitude of discretionary licensing anywhere, especially where the statute is for the applicant if it goes to court. Although, I find it hard to believe that a district judge that deals with the chief extensively would go against him and force him to issue a permit.

That's just absurd that the guy wouldn't even talk to you about it.... ugh.

-Mike

 

[KMS]

This isn't Greenville is it?

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

No Newmarket, NH.

 

[Matt_SERE]

eta: wrong post