Readily Capable of accepting large capacity

[Gman021]

Thinking about the debate with whether a 10/22 is FID compliant or not (I know some stores will sell and others will not), who decides what is readily capable and what isn't?

If there's only one company making hi cap mags, is that fine? Two, three, four...?

I asked at 4S about a Saiga 12 and Carl told me it was a no go because a 20 round drum existed. But 30 round mags exist for the 10/22. And I hear the ruger mini's are FID compliant yet they have hi cap mags. It just had me thinking if I could get in trouble for having an an AR15 if only had 10 round mags.


Can anyone shed some light on this and make it a little clearer? Although making a law clear in MA is practically impossible.

 

[pakman55]

The way I have heard it is that if the factory does not supply it with a High cap (anywhere) then you are ok. However IANAL

 

[chinalfr]

Call Marci. Set a lunch or dinner date. She can explained the MA law with her own version.


Sent from my iPhone 5.

 

[atmay]

The way I have heard it is that if the factory does not supply it with a High cap (anywhere) then you are ok. However IANAL

This is the generally accepted criteria for guns not specifically on the large capacity roster.

 

[Gman021]

This is the generally accepted criteria for guns not specifically on the large capacity roster.

Oh that's right, anything on it is always no matter what non FID compliant. So I'm just going to take a gander here and say there is no way I can transport a Saiga AK or any type of AR (my dad can buy it but I don't usually go to the range with him).

I know the sporter saiga's ship with 10 round mags.

 

[atmay]

Oh that's right, anything on it is always no matter what non FID compliant. So I'm just going to take a gander here and say there is no way I can transport a Saiga AK or any type of AR (my dad can buy it but I don't usually go to the range with him).

I know the sporter saiga's ship with 10 round mags.

A non-converted Saiga is likely good to go, but anything AK or AR is automatically large-capacity.

 

[joeendris]

Thinking about the debate with whether a 10/22 is FID compliant or not (I know some stores will sell and others will not), who decides what is readily capable and what isn't?

If there's only one company making hi cap mags, is that fine? Two, three, four...?

I asked at 4S about a Saiga 12 and Carl told me it was a no go because a 20 round drum existed. But 30 round mags exist for the 10/22. And I hear the ruger mini's are FID compliant yet they have hi cap mags. It just had me thinking if I could get in trouble for having an an AR15 if only had 10 round mags.


Can anyone shed some light on this and make it a little clearer? Although making a law clear in MA is practically impossible.

I believe there was a company (eagle?) that went out of business BEFORE the ban went into effect, therefore all of their stuff is pre-ban. 30rnd 10/22 mags being one of their products. Is this part of their reasoning for labeling the rugers "high-cap"?

 

[peteyb]

First off, no matter the case do not always believe gun shop owners/workers. A while back I was at 4S and wanted to look at another 10/22 and he told me that I couldnt even hold it since it was high capacity. Another worker there also told me that an SKS can be converted to accept high caps so it is also not FID compliant, so don't believe everything you hear.

As far as how a firearm is actually classified as high cap depends on whether the manufacturer ships the gun with high cap mags or not. For example Ruger does not ship 10/22's with high cap mags, so even though other companies make them it is still considered a low capacity weapon. This is just what Ive found from my research IANAL

 

[Gman021]

It would be nice to get a definite answer on an unconverted Saiga

 

[Takis48]

My Remington R-15 is listed an non-large capacity on the paperwork. Maybe it's because it came with a 5-round mag.

 

[flintoid]

It would be nice to get a definite answer on an unconverted Saiga

if the Saiga is in the no-zone, go hunting for a AK that feeds from a single stack mag. That will only take a 10 round mag no matter what you do.

Some of those AKs are really neat- they originate from Bulgarian/Romanian military variants, so the receivers have the spot welds and stampings of their military cousins. They look pretty cool, IMO, but I geek out over that stuff.

 

[Len-2A Training]

As far as how a firearm is actually classified as high cap depends on whether the manufacturer ships the gun with high cap mags or not. For example Ruger does not ship 10/22's with high cap mags, so even though other companies make them it is still considered a low capacity weapon. This is just what Ive found from my research IANAL

This is indeed the correct answer.

FS will not sell 10/22s to anyone with an FID card. It's their policy and a mis-interpretation of the large-capacity issue.

EVERY gun that takes an external mag "has the ability to take a large capacity magazine" . . . if someone were to make such a thing. 22 rd single-stack 1911 mags can be found at NH gun shows, just to point out an extreme example.

 

[C-pher]

This is indeed the correct answer.

FS will not sell 10/22s to anyone with an FID card. It's their policy and a mis-interpretation of the large-capacity issue.

EVERY gun that takes an external mag "has the ability to take a large capacity magazine" . . . if someone were to make such a thing. 22 rd single-stack 1911 mags can be found at NH gun shows, just to point out an extreme example.

Correct, while the 10/22 is an FID rifle. As soon as you purchace an aftermarket magazine over 10 rounds, you better have at least a Class B license. That's because YOU just changed the classification of the rifle.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Correct, while the 10/22 is an FID rifle. As soon as you purchace an aftermarket magazine over 10 rounds, you better have at least a Class B license. That's because YOU just changed the classification of the rifle.

Also 100% true.

 

[Duxprep]

This whole discussion is perplexing. By definition a 10/22 IS a high capacity firearm. MGL sec 121 “Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device;. Note the section in bold. 10/22's can readily accept a large capacity feeding device. Even so , they're NOT on the large capacity roster... Go figure.

 

[Duxprep]

Correct, while the 10/22 is an FID rifle. As soon as you purchace an aftermarket magazine over 10 rounds, you better have at least a Class B license. That's because YOU just changed the classification of the rifle.

I'm not sure that's 100% accurate. Wouldn't you need a class A to buy/posses a magazine OVER 10 rounds? Also, I don't see how any magazine you own changes the classification of Any firearm you own

 

[Dirtypacman]

As Flintoid stated you can get "single stack" AK that will only take 10 round mags. They are FID compliant for sure. Last time I saw one was at Northshore Firearms but that was at least a year or two ago but figured I would mention.

 

[Mike-Mike]

It's either on "the list" or it is not. Any mag fed gun could meet the criteria if we tried hard enough. Let talk about something reliant, like the PBLCFD on a pump shotgun.... where is Jar?

 

[HTRN]

I'm not sure that's 100% accurate. Wouldn't you need a class A to buy/posses a magazine OVER 10 rounds? Also, I don't see how any magazine you own changes the classification of Any firearm you own

NO!

A class B permits large-cap rifles and shotguns.

Class A = Large cap hand guns.

If you have a large capacity feeding device with the gun, it is now a hi-cap weapon.

 

[Mass Firearms]

The fact is the state has issued contradictory information on this matter. This issue needs to be litigated. Any volunteers?

 

[Duxprep]

The fact is the state has issued contradictory information on this matter. This issue needs to be litigated. Any volunteers?

Of Course the law also states that if I polish my firearm I'm a "gunsmith" Whats the problem?

 

[Mike-Mike]

The fact is the state has issued contradictory information on this matter. This issue needs to be litigated. Any volunteers?

You first....

 

[dwarven1]

Ruger does not ship 10/22's with high cap mags, so even though other companies make them it is still considered a low capacity weapon.

Ruger does not even MAKE large capacity mags for the 10/22, and they never have.

This whole discussion is perplexing. By definition a 10/22 IS a high capacity firearm. MGL sec 121 “Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device;. Note the section in bold. 10/22's can readily accept a large capacity feeding device. Even so , they're NOT on the large capacity roster... Go figure.

Do you work for Four Seasons?

I'm not sure that's 100% accurate. Wouldn't you need a class A to buy/posses a magazine OVER 10 rounds? Also, I don't see how any magazine you own changes the classification of Any firearm you own

NO! All you need for a large capacity RIFLE is a Class B LTC.

The only way I could see you needing a Class A for a RIFLE magazine is if you also owned a Ruger Charger and had a 25 or 30 round aftermarket 10/22 mag... since the Charger is just a short-barreled 10/22 with a pistol grip.

 

[C-pher]

Ruger does not even MAKE large capacity mags for the 10/22, and they never have.

Hope you like Crow Ross.

http://www.ruger.com/news/2011-04-29b.html

 

[Len-2A Training]

This whole discussion is perplexing. By definition a 10/22 IS a high capacity firearm. MGL sec 121 “Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device;. Note the section in bold. 10/22's can readily accept a large capacity feeding device. Even so , they're NOT on the large capacity roster... Go figure.

As I stated above, this makes EVERY mag-fed semi-auto a "large capacity gun"! That was not the intent of the quoted law, but the ignoramuses who wrote it didn't have a f'n clue what they were doing or even a mastery of the English language! Thus a clarification appears on the EOPS Roster. And yes it is confusing!

The fact is the state has issued contradictory information on this matter. This issue needs to be litigated. Any volunteers?

Sadly funny and true! No telling where the agenda-driven judges in MA would end up if this were litigated either.

 

[Duxprep]

Do you work for Four Seasons?
.

Nope, just pointing out the contradiction, that by MGL definition it is Large capacity yet it's not on the roster.

Some have stated that the interpretation is that it's based on what the rifle is shipped with. How have people come to that conclusion? Is that written anywhere? GOAL?

 

[Duxprep]

Never mind - Len - You posted too fast - Thanks I'll review the EOPS

 

[Len-2A Training]

Hope you like Crow Ross.

http://www.ruger.com/news/2011-04-29b.html

Both Ross and I WERE right, up until they did this. HOWEVER the criteria is really whether or not the mfr at any time shipped the gun WITH such hi-cap mags. So if it is just an option AFTER purchase of the gun, the 10/22 still wouldn't be a large-cap gun. We'll have to wait and see where this goes, but I can foresee the likelihood that Ruger will do this and kill that gun off for all <21 yos in such commie states as MA!! Oh and if that happens, it makes instant felons of any FID-holder with a 10/22 even if it were legal to possess with an FID WHEN THEY BOUGHT IT! Would make an interesting Comm2A case however!

 

[C-pher]

Both Ross and I WERE right, up until they did this. HOWEVER the criteria is really whether or not the mfr at any time shipped the gun WITH such hi-cap mags. So if it is just an option AFTER purchase of the gun, the 10/22 still wouldn't be a large-cap gun. We'll have to wait and see where this goes, but I can foresee the likelihood that Ruger will do this and kill that gun off for all <21 yos in such commie states as MA!! Oh and if that happens, it makes instant felons of any FID-holder with a 10/22 even if it were legal to possess with an FID WHEN THEY BOUGHT IT! Would make an interesting Comm2A case however!

No, Ross wasn't right. His comment was, "Ruger does not even MAKE large capacity mags for the 10/22, and they never have."

I wasn't commenting on weither this makes the 10/22 a Large capisity rifle or not. I was commenting on the fact that since April of last year, they have. So, Ross' comment was in fact, wrong.

 

[dwarven1]

Hope you like Crow Ross.

http://www.ruger.com/news/2011-04-29b.html

I'll be damned. I'd missed that one. How bout that? With hi-caps for the 10/22, pocket pistols and high-capacity compact sidearms coming out of Ruger's plants, Bill Ruger must be known as "Spinning Billy" these days.

Obviously, I stand corrected. Mmmm... Crow. Yum.