Readily Capable of accepting large capacity

[drgrant]

Both Ross and I WERE right, up until they did this. HOWEVER the criteria is really whether or not the mfr at any time shipped the gun WITH such hi-cap mags. So if it is just an option AFTER purchase of the gun, the 10/22 still wouldn't be a large-cap gun. We'll have to wait and see where this goes, but I can foresee the likelihood that Ruger will do this and kill that gun off for all <21 yos in such commie states as MA!! Oh and if that happens, it makes instant felons of any FID-holder with a 10/22 even if it were legal to possess with an FID WHEN THEY BOUGHT IT! Would make an interesting Comm2A case however!

Len, What if Ruger only does it on some versions of the 10/22 and not others? Say the carbine/wal mart specials never get it by default, but they release a special version through Horton's or whoever, and that one comes with the BX-25... then what happens?

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

riddle me this, Why Can't someone with an FID buy a mossberg 500 chainsaw. my friend said he couldn't buy one with his FID

If he was under 21 the chainsaw is a PGO shotgun (pistol grip only) and PGO shotguns can't be sold to people under 21 by an FFL.

The FID card by itself would not be a problem, it's the age. The feds have some ****ed up administrative rule attached to PGO shotguns making them "special" at the dealer sales level.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Here's the exact text from what I believe was the one of the first Large Capacity Weapon Rosters, released Jan. 2000.

LARGE CAPACITY WEAPON ROSTER 01-2000​

Supercedes All Previous Rosters
​

This roster has been compiled in accordance with M.G.L. c.140, §131¾. It contains weapons determined to have been originally manufactured for the civilian retail consumer market as large capacity weapons as defined by § 121of chapter 140. Weapons not listed on this roster may also be large capacity weapons if they are semi-automatic,and are capable of accepting or readily modifiable to accept a large capacity feeding device.

For the purposes of M.G.L. c.140, §121, “Capable of Accepting” shall mean any firearm, rifle or shotgun in which a large capacity feeding device is capable of being used without alteration of the weapon; provided, however, that said feeding device is fully or partially inserted into the weapon or attached thereto, or is under the direct control of a person who also has direct control of a weapon capable of accepting said feeding device.

For the purposes of M.G.L. c.140, §121, “Readily Modifiable to Accept” shall mean any firearm, rifle or shotgun immediately capable of being altered so as to accept a large capacity feeding device; provided, however that said feeding device is fully or partially inserted into the weapon or attached thereto, or is under the direct control of a person who also has direct control of a weapon capable of accepting said feeding device.
​

NOTE: Unless otherwise exempted by §121, the term "large capacity weapon" shall apply to all semiautomatic weapons equipped with a large capacity feeding device, including any such weapons not listed on this roster.​

​

​

​

​

​

And here is how it appears in the latest Roster (June 2011):
http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/large-capacity-roster-06-2011.pdf

LARGE CAPACITY WEAPONS ROSTER 06-2011

This Roster Supersedes All Previous Rosters
​

This roster has been compiled in accordance with M.G.L. c.140, §131¾. It contains weapons determined to have been originally manufactured for the civilian retail consumer market as largecapacity weapons as defined by M.G.L. c. 140, § 121. Weapons not listed on this roster mayalso be large capacity weapons if they are semi-automatic and are capable of accepting or readily modifiable to accept a large capacity feeding device. Definitions of ‘capable of accepting’ and ‘readily modifiable to accept’ are defined in 501 CMR 7.02.

NOTE: Unless otherwise exempted by M.G.L. c. 140, §121, the term ‘large capacity weapon’shall apply to all semiautomatic weapons equipped with a large capacity feeding device,
including any such weapons not listed on this roster.”​

​

An interesting footnote is the following case that GOAL brought against the commiewealth and lost in US District Court back in 2001-2.http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/284/284.F3d.198.00-2357.html

​

 

[dwarven1]

Len, What if Ruger only does it on some versions of the 10/22 and not others? Say the carbine/wal mart specials never get it by default, but they release a special version through Horton's or whoever, and that one comes with the BX-25... then what happens?

Then Marsha needs to change her panties and after she stops drooling, she bans the most popular .22 rifle for anyone under 21 in this fascist hell-hole of a state.

 

[HTRN]

Len, What if Ruger only does it on some versions of the 10/22 and not others? Say the carbine/wal mart specials never get it by default, but they release a special version through Horton's or whoever, and that one comes with the BX-25... then what happens?

-Mike

I would expect to then see it added to the roster.

The M&P15-22 is now on it because it ships to free states with 25RD mags.

 

[garandman]

I've run into the same divergent opinions when asking whether a S&W M&P15-22 Compliant violates the Boston AWB.

I have two answers so far. No. Yes.

 

[Len-2A Training]

No, Ross wasn't right. His comment was, "Ruger does not even MAKE large capacity mags for the 10/22, and they never have."

I wasn't commenting on weither this makes the 10/22 a Large capisity rifle or not. I was commenting on the fact that since April of last year, they have. So, Ross' comment was in fact, wrong.

C-pher, I'll go out on a limb here and say that I doubt that Ross knew about that "change in philosophy" at Ruger! I certainly did not know about it until you pointed it out. Going back and add +1 Rep for correction.

Len, What if Ruger only does it on some versions of the 10/22 and not others? Say the carbine/wal mart specials never get it by default, but they release a special version through Horton's or whoever, and that one comes with the BX-25... then what happens?

-Mike

The way most guns are listed, if they do this my guess is that it will be ALL 10/22s become banned for <21 yos or those with merely an FID.

Then Marsha needs to change her panties and after she stops drooling, she bans the most popular .22 rifle for anyone under 21 in this fascist hell-hole of a state.

Her objective is to do what she can to ban all guns. That won't bother her in the least.

I would expect to then see it added to the roster.

The M&P15-22 is now on it because it ships to free states with 25RD mags.

This is a head-banger as almost every handgun being sold today fits this category too and was ignored wrt the large cap roster. I spoke with Glidden about this ~1 year ago and he told me that they did not intend to revise that roster to include damn near everything. I'll contend that one must be real careful as prosecution would be a slam-dunk in MA for a LTC-B holder with almost every model of M&P pistol (just to use one example), even though it's not on the roster.

 

[HTRN]

I've run into the same divergent opinions when asking whether a S&W M&P15-22 Compliant violates the Boston AWB.

I have two answers so far. No. Yes.

These folks would know:

SECTION 5. There shall be in the city of Boston an assault weapon roster board, hereinafter referred to
as the board, which shall consist of seven members each of whom shall serve for a term of four years.
The members of the board shall be: the police commissioner of the city of Boston, ex officio, or his
designee, who shall serve as chairman of the board; the corporation counsel of the city of Boston, ex
officio, or his designee; and five members to be appointed by the mayor, one of whom shall be a member
of the Massachusetts chapter of the National Rifle Association; one of whom shall be an employee of a
Massachusetts firm which manufactures firearms; and three citizens of the city of Boston, one of whom
shall be a member of a recognized gun control organization.
The board shall meet at the request of the chairman or by the request of a majority of its members.
There shall be an assault weapon roster, hereinafter referred to as the roster, which the board shall
compile and initially publish in a newspaper of general circulation in the city of Boston by December first,
nineteen hundred and eighty-nine.
In determining whether any weapon shall be placed on the roster, the board shall consider each of the
following characteristics, without placing any undue weight on any one characteristic:
(1) Ballistic accuracy,
(2) Quality of materials,
(3) Quality of manufacture,
(4) Reliability as to safety,
(5) Utility for legitimate sporting activities.
The board shall at least semi-annually publish the roster in a newspaper of general circulation in the city
of Boston, and shall send a copy thereof to all dealers licensed in the city of Boston under the provisions
of section one hundred and twenty-two of chapter one hundred and forty of the General Laws.
The board may modify the roster upon the board's own initiative. A person may petition the board to place
a weapon on the roster, subject to the provisions of this section. A person who so petitions shall give the
reasons why the weapon should be placed on the roster.
A petition to place a weapon on the roster shall be submitted in writing to the board and shall be in the
form and manner prescribed by the board. Upon receipt of the petition to place a weapon on the roster,
the board shall, within forty-five
days of receipt of the petition, either notify the petitioner by certified mail that the petition is denied, or it
shall place the weapon on the roster. The prohibition of a weapon shall be effective on the date it is
included in the next publication of the roster in a newspaper of general circulation in the city of Boston.
The board shall be authorized to promulgate regulations concerning the appeal of a decision to place or
to deny to place a weapon on the roster and any other regulations not inconsistent with this act to
effectuate its purpose.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Due to the info on Ruger's mfg a large-cap mag for the 10/22, I now retract my statement that the 10/22 is a suitable gun for an FID holder or anyone under 21 yo.

It's too risky and would be a slam-dunk prosecution, so I would not recommend it any more.

 

[dwarven1]

Her objective is to do what she can to ban all guns. That won't bother her in the least.

Bother her?? Hell, Len, she'll have to change her panties after she wets herself in sheer pleasure at being able to make the 10/22 out of the reach of FID holders!

 

[C-pher]

C-pher, I'll go out on a limb here and say that I doubt that Ross knew about that "change in philosophy" at Ruger! I certainly did not know about it until you pointed it out. Going back and add +1 Rep for correction.

I'm sure he didn't, but would this place be if not good for some fun ribbing of friends.

And, I'm sure that most people didn't know that they've had these for almost a year now. So, why not break out the news...but I swear I learned of this at some point from this board.

 

[Gman021]

Got off the phone with one store (not 4S) and they told me it was a no go on the saiga. I explained how it's shipped nation wide with 10 round mags and it's a sporting rifle (no pistol grip, other AK features) and can't accept standard mags without being modified.

I'm not buying the argument that once a company makes an aftermarket hi cap mag the gun automatically becomes hi cap. I may try calling some other dealers.

 

[flintoid]

disregard

 

[Gman021]

Then we sadly have to go with the single stack

 

[flintoid]

Then we sadly have to go with the single stack

it's not a bad option. And if you want to play it safe, it's the way to go. Single stack AKs have no such thing as high cap mags. Period.

Massachusetts sucks.

 

[dwarven1]

I'm sure he didn't, but would this place be if not good for some fun ribbing of friends.

And, I'm sure that most people didn't know that they've had these for almost a year now. So, why not break out the news...but I swear I learned of this at some point from this board.

Dude, if you can read EVERY post on this board, you're A) the fastest reader I've ever heard of and B) about to be made a Mod as soon as Derek reads this.

Got off the phone with one store (not 4S) and they told me it was a no go on the saiga. I explained how it's shipped nation wide with 10 round mags and it's a sporting rifle (no pistol grip, other AK features) and can't accept standard mags without being modified.

I'm not buying the argument that once a company makes an aftermarket hi cap mag the gun automatically becomes hi cap. I may try calling some other dealers.

How about this argument?

“Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells;

“Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device; (iii) that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or firearm; or (iv) that is an assault weapon.

Sorry, dude... if it's a semi-auto shotty with a 10 round magazine, it's large capacity. Wait until you're 21, and oh, yes... start writing your state rep and/or senator to get that goddamn AWB repealed.

 

[flintoid]

Sorry, dude... if it's a semi-auto shotty with a 10 round magazine, it's large capacity. Wait until you're 21, and oh, yes... start writing your state rep and/or senator to get that goddamn AWB repealed.

crap, I thought we were talking 7.62x39.

disregard my previous post.

 

[Gman021]

The guy on the phone was kept saying how retarded this state is. And A pump can exceed 5 shotgun shells, right? I know mine does.

 

[HTRN]

The guy on the phone was kept saying how retarded this state is. And A pump can exceed 5 shotgun shells, right? I know mine does.

Correct!

Only semiautomatic rifles and shotguns are inclusive to this law.

 

[dwarven1]

The guy on the phone was kept saying how retarded this state is. And A pump can exceed 5 shotgun shells, right? I know mine does.

Well... a semi-auto pump can't... if you can imagine such a bastardized creation. (Watch the Zero Hour website; they're probably designing it to be a companion piece to their tacticool Mosin Nagant).



Either that, or it's coming up on the next episode of Sons of Guns.

 

[Gman021]

crap, I thought we were talking 7.62x39.

disregard my previous post.

We were. I haven't given up on the saiga yet but I will be calling stores to see if they have single stacks. It's not that I really mind it's single stack, it's just that they probably aren't as cheap as a sporterized saiga.

And I'm sure the gun shops will tell me the single stack won't even be FID complaint because it's an AK

 

[HTRN]

Well... a semi-auto pump can't... if you can imagine such a bastardized creation. (Watch the Zero Hour website; they're probably designing it to be a companion piece to their tacticool Mosin Nagant).



Either that, or it's coming up on the next episode of Sons of Guns.

Hmm... if the action is semo-atuo, can it be a pump-action too?

I think you just broke a law of physics.

 

[Gman021]

Well... a semi-auto pump can't... if you can imagine such a bastardized creation. (Watch the Zero Hour website; they're probably designing it to be a companion piece to their tacticool Mosin Nagant).



Either that, or it's coming up on the next episode of Sons of Guns.

Hmm... if the action is semo-atuo, can it be a pump-action too?

I think you just broke a law of physics.

 

[dwarven1]

Hmm... if the action is semo-atuo, can it be a pump-action too?

I think you just broke a law of physics.

That IS why I called it a "bastardized creation", sir.

 

[HTRN]

We were. I haven't given up on the saiga yet but I will be calling stores to see if they have single stacks. It's not that I really mind it's single stack, it's just that they probably aren't as cheap as a sporterized saiga.

And I'm sure the gun shops will tell me the single stack won't even be FID complaint because it's an AK

A saiga sporting rifle is not an AK.

Significant modifications need to be made to the rifle to accept AK mags, which then render the saiga mags useless to the rifle without modification.

I'm sure you will find a dealer that understands the law and will sell you the sporting rifle.

Just don't modify it to be like an AK at all or you will be committing a felony.

 

[HTRN]

That IS why I called it a "bastardized creation", sir.

I was just ribbing.

 

[HTRN]

That would be considered semi auto.

 

[Dirtypacman]

And I'm sure the gun shops will tell me the single stack won't even be FID complaint because it's an AK

Call Northshore Firearms that is where I saw it and I do believe it was discussed at the time that it is FID compliant.

 

[joeendris]

The fact is the state has issued contradictory information on this matter. This issue needs to be litigated. Any volunteers?

Nebulous laws allow any DA the right to prosecute you in more than one way depending on their attitude that day. Which is perfect for Marsha...

 

[M1911]

Hmm... if the action is semo-atuo, can it be a pump-action too?

Benelli M3?