Reload Rework

[walter62]

Just curious, estimate how many cartridges (out of 100) that you
reload that require some amount of 'rework' (fails gauge) (needs better crimp, bad COL, mis-seated primer, whatever)
vs. gauge and go

>> this is for simpler straight-wall carts <<

 

[Jim Poulette]

RE: .44 mag w/ LNL AP

I'm still relatively new to reloading (and using fairly new brass <10 reloads) so I'm guessing I'm still a little picky about checking charge weight, COAL, and plunk.

Excluding experiments, in my last 600 .44 mag rounds I've had 2 plunk test failures (Lyman gauge). They were just barely gauge failures, and did ultimately fit the revolver cylinder and were used as is.

I'm still acquiring data - so that's all I got for now !

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Just curious, estimate how many cartridges (out of 100) that you
reload that require some amount of 'rework' (fails gauge) (needs better crimp, bad COL, mis-seated primer, whatever)
vs. gauge and go

>> this is for simpler straight-wall carts <<

Once you get a die set where you like it you should can use locking rings or quick change lock n load or Lee bushings so you don’t have to change the settings.
Then you might lose one now and then due to bad brass or poor technique but it’s rare.

Even if you don’t use bushing you should make up a dummy cartridge for each cartridge/bullet combo.

Now you pop that in the shell holder and tighten down your die till the seating stem hits the bullet.
Do the same for your crimp die or combo die when crimping.

Keep that bullet and use it to set up your dies.
Once they’re all locked down they should produce good ammo from start to finish. That takes care of crimp/COL/99.9% of gauge issues.

If you prep and sort your brass properly you’ll hardly ever crush a primer.

 

[walter62]

Except when you realize that someone at the range was shooting 9x18 Makarov
Luckily only 1 in the batch.

Once I cleaned the rounds and gauge, a few more passed plunk so I'm down to
around 2-3 per hundred using range brass (so I'm seeing around 0.005" or so of variance
in overall COL)

I'm going to assume that using new brass on 44S/M will put me where I need to be.

 

[55_grain]

Basically, +1 to what Michael said.

I might buckle a pistol case once in a while if the case mouth isn't belled enough and the projo starts leaning to one side, but the overall fail/rework % is way less than 1 in 100. I have case gauges for my major rifle calibers, and pistol cals can be checked for chamber fit in the barrel (once removed from the pistol).

 

[mac1911]

Most mistakes or problems come with change.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Most mistakes or problems come with change.

Yup.

Once you get everything set up right, as long as your components are good you should get no bad rounds.

We make 38 Special in the reloading classes. We make 100 rounds per class, and end up with a bad round about every 3rd class. Keep in mind, these are inexperienced reloaders using single stage presses to make ammo for the first time. Almost all the failures come from someone short-stroking the press during the expanding/flaring step, resulting in the bullet seating funny.

I make 9mm on a Dillon 1050 in my shop using range brass. I haven't made a bad round in the last 3K or so that I've made. Once the setup is good, there's very little room for operator error on that machine. I use a Mr. Bullet Feeder, and the machine swages the primer pockets, so there's no crookedly placed bullets or crushed primers because of crimped pockets.

The key is making sure you have good components. Since the bullets, primers, and powder are new, that means you need to do a good job inspecting the brass.

 

[walter62]

Thanks, I definitely have to do a better inspection & sorting job (or pickup). I've had a couple of 22LR, 380 Auto inside a couple of cases and a few Makarov cases.

 

[Jim Poulette]

One of the things I picked up from Jim's class was to sort carefully and clean one caliber at a time. Easy to overlook I suspect.

These resizing dies never cease to amaze me. Some of the higher charges in .44 mag really expand the brass a lot, but the resizing seems to work flawlessly every time. I'm guessing the lube hides a lot of the grunt work.

I know brass has elasticity - but I never dreamed you could get so many reloads out of them, and they look so good after doing so.

By the way - finally got one of these. OMG - where has it been all my life?

 

[walter62]

Which separator is that? Doesn't look 'familiar'

 

[xtry51]

Less than 1 out of 100. Maybe 3 per 1000 for 9mm, almost all brass related because I reload a LOT of mixed brass. Most of the issues are primer not seating due to some defect in the brass from it being ejected or stepped on. Usually the result is the primer slightly tilts at start, then you crush/deform it. I just huck it as cost of business.

There was that one time a few months ago my powder drop assembly loosened and I dorked an unknown number of rounds with underchsrges. Even with that 100% miss on my part, the bad rate is less than 2 per 100 what I have fired from that bin. Minimal risk as I'm only shooting that 9mm in G34 and low charges simply don't cycle. I'm using it for slow fire practice till it's gone and I have the bin labeled with warning.

If you're reloading and having higher than 5 per 1000, you shouod probably stop and reasses what you're doing wrong.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Thanks, I definitely have to do a better inspection & sorting job (or pickup). I've had a couple of 22LR, 380 Auto inside a couple of cases and a few Makarov cases.

Yeah, I end up sorting out a lot of 380s, a few 9X18 cases, and a few of those cases with the stupid shoulder inside the case, and any 9x19 that looks suspect - usually stuff that looks like its been reloaded a bunch. Reloaders seldom leave behind usable brass.

 

[walter62]

What is the story w/ those 9mm shouldered cases? I thought that they were a prior
reload that someone squashed a 38 into the sizer.

 

[JayW]

For me it is between 1 to 5 per hundred that need to be broken down. That changes based on what I am reloading. 45 ACP is closer to 10% reject rate. 9MM may be <1%.

 

[walter62]

I'm going to spend some quality conference call time sorting the brass.

It's all a learning thing. The last batch of 400+had about dozen no-plunks and then after
either cleaning the round and/or gauge and/or another pass through the crimper
I got it down to about 3-4 that still will not gauge but I'm going to barrel (removed from gun )
check them and see what the Sig's have to say.

Any point in getting a 2nd gauge for 'comparison'?

 

[Jim Poulette]

Which separator is that? Doesn't look 'familiar'

That's the Hornady "media sifter". Everybody makes them I suspect - but this one works really well. Link here.

 

[DW357]

I inspect the headstamp of every piece of brass before it goes on the press (Hornady progressive). It adds a little bit of time but it saves me from getting a 380 or 9x18 case mixed in - though I can tell just by the feel of the smaller case that its not a 9mm. Also to avoid getting cases with the step/shoulder inside as well as NATO brass with crimped primer pockets. Over the years I've remembered which brands of brass have the step/shoulder inside.

It's been mentioned here on the forum before but off the top of my head the brass with steps/shoulders is Freedom Munitions (FM), X-treme, IMT, and Tula maxxtech.

 

[xtry51]

I never owned a case guage until this year. I just used a barrel and a factory round. Adjusted my press unti the used brass plunked the same distance in the gun ad the factory round. My dies have locking collars so I set them in place. Never adjusted the dies since.

 

[DW357]

Yeah you really need to have locking collars for the dies. Saves a ton of time.
The hornady sure-loc rings work well for me. Though they may be tough to find right now.

 

[walter62]

Are you guys floating the sizer and/or seating dies via O-ring?

 

[xtry51]

I'm not using orings. I'm hard stopping it on the locked collar. I also sharpie mark the collar and press so if I remove them it's clear I reinstall to the same exact clock position.

 

[Jim Poulette]

Are you guys floating the sizer and/or seating dies via O-ring?

This is a good question. I've often wondered about those Hornady o-rings between the bushings and the turret frame.

Maybe it means nothing - but every time I flair a case I watch the flaring dies go up and down ever so slightly. Can't see any motion on the set/crimp dies - but that doesn't mean it's not moving.

 

[TrashcanDan]

What is the story w/ those 9mm shouldered cases? I thought that they were a prior
reload that someone squashed a 38 into the sizer.

These things?
Toss em or scrap em.
If I had to guess the purpose it was either-

1) To achieve max velocity with a small charge and save on powder, or
2) To prevent seating to far down, or
3) Designed by a 3rd grader and deemed super-awesome by some meth head marketing engineer at a production plant.

 

[Jim Poulette]

I'll go with #3.

 

[EddieCoyle]

These things?
Toss em or scrap em.
If I had to guess the purpose it was either-

1) To achieve max velocity with a small charge and save on powder, or
2) To prevent seating to far down, or
3) Designed by a 3rd grader and deemed super-awesome by some meth head marketing engineer at a production plant.

View attachment 513839

I think the shoulder is intended to prevent bullet setback for people that frequently unload/reload their carry gun.