Reloading Safely With the Weak Hand?

[P-14]

We're setting up IDPA matches for the year at Riverside and there has been a request for more weak hand shooting and potential weak hand reloading at practices and matches. I've spent some time on the internet looking for a safe way to reload a pistol or revolver with the weak hand only (with the strong hand completely out of service) and have come up empty ().

My concerns as an SO is that the muzzle must be pointed downrange at all times and can not break that 180 deg. plane parallel to the firing line. Pointing forward at the ground is OK. I probably would require slide lock on a pistol to prevent an AD for safety .

Constructive advice with references (if possible) from the forum would be appreciated.

Regards,

Bob

 

[Chuck]

Is tucking the pistol into the belt on the weak side out because of safety concerns? My thinking Bob is that I would then use the holster same as the dominant hand drill. But I can see your concern that a muzzle could point at the ground behind the dominant leg as the shooter reaches around if he's not careful. If that's out, then I'd try doing it with the pistol between my knees while I squatted down.

In a similar vein, what do y'all think about the safety of racking the slide with your belt or holster in an IDPA match?

cheers,
Chuck

 

[jar]

FWIW, IDPA rules prohibit weak-hand only reloads. For club level matches, I'm sure it's fine to bend the rules if that's what your shooters want.

"CoF 16. No “weak-hand only” reloading"


In general, how are one handed reloads performed? I haven't learned this yet, and haven't seen it in a match.

 

[JimConway]

One handed reloads

What we teach in our 200 class is the put the gun in the holster backwards, i.e. with the grip forward. then load the gun.
I will run you through it, the next time that we shoot together

 

[DR]

IMHO, including weak hand only reloads in a COF are not worth the potential safety issues.

 

[P-14]

What we teach in our 200 class is the put the gun in the holster backwards, i.e. with the grip forward. then load the gun.
I will run you through it, the next time that we shoot together

Jim, I appreciate that. Your explanation is a good start on thinking through the process.

DR: The jury is still out on the safety issue. I will ruminate on it and do some more research. An ex-Army Ranger friend of mine described something that involved holding the gun upside down (butt up and muzzle down range) between his knees for a weak hand reload. Both methods need more review for suitablity for a Match.

Thanks Jim and DR.

 

[JimConway]

Weak hand

Jars
There is one thing that you should think about. Using the Army guy's method, what happens if you have to move?? I have trained several SWAT team guys and they do use the army method. They were astounded when I demonstrated the reverse holster method.

Now I have a question for you. How do you plan to access your holstered weapon with your weak hand only? I will give you a clue. you already know how.

Since I am already giving you a hard time, I may as well go full tilt.
Hou do you plan to clear malfunctions with your weak hand only?

 

[GTOShootr]

IMHO, including weak hand only reloads in a COF are not worth the potential safety issues.

Yes, the muzzle could easily sweep uprange in a match, even when doing it technically correct. Todd Jarrett demonstrated the two methods mentioned on one of his Shooting USA segments. They might be online. He racked rounds out, simulating clearing jams, using his boot, thigh, and belt, which makes you think about how your sight might hold-up/work in those maneuvers.

 

[GTOShootr]

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/JARRETT3-6/jarrett3-6.html

Pics

 

[JimConway]

The techniques that I mentioned are real world and are not games. I never give any form of advice on shooting competitions.
As far as the comment of the effect on sights goes, it is not a problem, unless you have a Glock with the factory plastic sights.
Shame on you, you should have changed tham anyway.

On one of my guns where the rear sight has no forward edge (combat (no snag) sights), I simply put a piece of skateboard tape on the top of the slide between the rear sight and the ejection port. It works very well, but I do have to change it now and then.

On the comment about safety (covering) during weak hand manipulations, this is a training issue. Get the training and practice or stay away from me.

 

[GTOShootr]

...it is not a problem, unless you have a Glock with the factory plastic sights.Shame on you, you should have changed tham anyway.

Those are the just sights I was hinting at. Far from Perfection.

 

[Chris]

Since you mentioned this last night, I was mulling over the issues and here is my $0.02.

In all honesty, Weak hand with reload is probably a no-go for any 'game'. There is a reason for the rule. However, a Weak hand 'string' in a single hand COF is not out of the question.

Even "Strong Hand Only" reloads are risky. First off, it is the rare competitor who actually holsters without pointing the gun at himself. Add to that a speed issue of holstering on the clock and you are setting yourself up for a disaster. I would strongly argue a slide-lock ONLY if you want to do a reload that pretty much screams for a reholster.

In the real world, I'm going to break every rule and cheat to win. I practice a lot of stuff with unloaded guns that I'd never want to have to do 'live'. I'd stick with the game geared to be safe and leave the other stuff to a self-defense course.

One way to avoid the issue is to shoot the course so that all reloads are off the clock, ie, in strings. The shooter goes and stops when they would like to reload. You mark the string time and then restart the shooter after he has carefully reloaded and reholstered. Sure, it's not 'real' but it is safe. I would even set up the course so that the string count is not set. In other words, "reload as needed".

Remember, IDPA is first a GAME. Don't lose sight of that fact by trying to get shooters doing things that are potentially dangerous.

One thing I would like to see more in IDPA matches is more decision making. So many courses plan out everything. If you go to other parts of the country you'll see every single stage with an 18 round minimum. Each movement, cover, and shot is choreographed. The only thing the shooter has to do is hit his mark and align the sights. It's more like acting than shooting.

I'd love to see more stages where the 'solution' is left to the shooter. Set the targets, set various types of cover/shooting isles, declare a required hit count, and go. With some creative layouts, it would be hard to declare a 'best' method. Certainly start some discussions. Heck, make it worse, hide it all behind a screen and don't permit a walk though. Heck, don't even tell them how many targets. (^_^)

 

[Arcticelf]

Chris,
Come to the Worcester matches this summer. We usually have at least one stage thats flexible like that. If you tell me which one, I'll make sure of it.

To the OP: If you had a table to use for the reload it could be done safely. Drop the old mag (using the weak hand trigger finger), set the gun down, get a new mag out, charge the gun, and go. However this is probably not a realistic thing to do in a fight (which is presumably why your shooters are asking about it). I would humbly suggest that weak-hand only (or strong hand only for that matter) reloads are probably outside the IDPA game, and best left to a fighting handgun course.

AE

 

[jar]

I just thought of another question. How the hell do you reload a revolver one handed?

 

[DR]

I just thought of another question. How the hell do you reload a revolver one handed?

Slowly?

It can be done. The trick is to use your belt to hold the opened gun. It's easier with a full length barrel but can be done with a snubby. It can be done left handed, too.

If you carry a revolver, take Michael de Bethencourt's snubby class to learn how.

 

[jkelly]

P14,
I'd agree with Chris and AE regarding single handed reloads in IDPA. I also wouldn’t be thrilled with allowing the firearm to be reloaded with both hands during a weak hand only stage as the firearm is likely to be transfered from one hand to the other twice.


Respectfully,

jkelly