Remington Bankruptcy?

If a company goes out of business, what happens to their patents? It would be great if someone could buy the old designs and bring back the best ones, and maybe even make some improvements. Not just for Remington, but it would be great to get a brand new alloy break-top H&R .22, and many other designs you don't see any more with modern updates.
With the introduction of single shot shotguns by Savage earlier this year, I think they're on the road to fill the market gap that H&R left when it comes to single shot break action rifles. I would much rather buy a Savage single shot rifle with the Accutrigger than I would buy anything from a resurrected iteration of H&R under Freedom Group.
 
If they got out from under the corporate no nothings and reorganized under new leadership with firearm industry experience somewhere down south they'd be fine. Maybe Kel-Tech could buy them or something? Their manufacturing costs, poor management, and poor QC has been what's killing them. No reason why a bankruptcy done intelligently couldn't salvage the company. They aren't a hopeless patronage case like Colt is.
You're absolutely right about that. Unlike Colt, Remington is still the number one name in hunting firearms and at times ammunition among the public, be they casual shooters, brand new shooters/hunters, or even Anti's. There is still a market out there for Remington products, but that market is disappearing thanks in large part to the negative press on the 700's deadly trigger issues, their low quality, and the general slowdown in buying with a Republican party run government.

Colt has no hope to survive. While everyone know about a Colt .45, Colt Peacemaker, Colt 1911, Colt Navy, etc... few are willing to pay the price for a brand new one made by Colt, not when they could buy one that saw time in Europe or the Pacific theaters in WW2 or Vietnam.

Or just buy one from Ruger or Rock Island for way less.

Colt's only option is to get back to innovating and making interesting designs for handguns like Ruger and even Kel Tec does today or they go under. Looks like Colt management wants it to go under so they can get a 10 million dollar buyout and go on vacation for the next 5 years.
 
Don' forget about the massive model 700 recall and a looming sandy hook civil suit.
Also, the gun industry is very unique. All domestic gun manufacturers were hurt when The Donald got elected. We all had to have him for pres., including the manufacturers and aftermarket , knowing it would decrease demand for new fireams.
A very strange and counterintuitive industry indeed.

Shooty

Even if shitlery was elected, that long term growth (eg, the post sandy-hook boom) wasn't sustainable. 8 years of Obama + sandy hook etc bullshit had basically drained a lot of bank accounts. After a point the market gets saturated and sales retreat.

-Mike
 
Even if shitlery was elected, that long term growth (eg, the post sandy-hook boom) wasn't sustainable. 8 years of Obama + sandy hook etc bullshit had basically drained a lot of bank accounts. After a point the market gets saturated and sales retreat.

-Mike
True, any time that you artificially stimulate a market or an economy a crash is usually imminent.
 
Tough to make a living when most of your product line is old & low margin in areas with lots of good competition. It takes a while for the price to be paid when you neglect R&D and quality control but they are paying it now.
 
Corporations are no different than humans because they are. . . run by humans.

You get some regular guy that somehow gets triple-pay overtime for 10 hours a week on a temporary assignment. Something that you can SEE is going to end. How many of them regular guys actually save any of that money??? If it's longer than a year or two of "temporary," most of that extra pay isn't spent on special things but on "regular" things.

Once the triple-time is over, regular-guy is f'd. He's up to his eyeballs in debt he can't service and he's got no cash in the bank.

Why do we expect most companies to be the same way???? I guess it's because we expect CEO's to be different. But common sense is meanly (and sparingly) distributed.
 
When I was looking for a pump shotgun a few years ago I couldn't for the life of me figure out why anyone would get an 870 over a 500 and I still can't. I did have a Remington once though - an R1 - and the product was nearly as bad as the customer service. Only Remington I'd buy would be a GI 1911.
 
Sad really. My dad's old 760 30.06 with a synthetic stock and a 70s 788 .308 really bring back memories and are evidence of the halcyon days of Remington . Growing up I thought those were the most badass deer hunting rigs, especially the 760. I have and can still shoot cloverleaves with either of these rifles (despite the dumb rumors these can't shoot). I remember during a hunt when I was 12, my dad and I crested a ridge overlooking a patch of Laurel and a resting 9 point buck jumped and ran. Before I could react, my dad shouldered and fired 2 shots at the running buck. The second shot wasn't necessary. There isn't room on that guns stock if a notch was made for every bagged deer.

Stupid mismanagement
 
I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said. Kind of sad a company with such a rich history could go under. That being said, quality is one of the biggest issues they've been facing and you can't blame low sales when just this black Friday there was 200,000 NICS checks not including any online sales/transfers. Can't blame the market when a company fails to improve themselves.
 
Let them BURN...

save the "they are a gun company they need to be saved". If a business is failing its for a reason. I refuse to buy their products. Cheap guns and poor customer service
 
I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said. Kind of sad a company with such a rich history could go under. That being said, quality is one of the biggest issues they've been facing and you can't blame low sales when just this black Friday there was 200,000 NICS checks not including any online sales/transfers. Can't blame the market when a company fails to improve themselves.


That being said.
 
This is sad. Remington bought up a local gun shop here near where I live (Harrington & Richardson) and didn't do right by any of the people that worked there. The company I work for absorbed many of their employees.
 
It's all Trumps fault!
If Hillary won the election, they'd still be running three shifts trying to keep up with demand.
Ha! Only temporarily though... once she shut down all gun factories there would be zero shifts.
 
Hope they sell the designs to the ACR to some other company that actually could do something with it.
Meanwhile, get your spare parts now.
 
Back in my early days Remington and Browning were the rage. I have three A-5's (12, 16, 20 gauge) the 12 gauge made in 1924 by FN. My Remington's consists of 2 Model 1100's Lt 20, one NIB and one a synthetic with a rifle barrel. I have a few rifles also a 700 BDL 30-06, a 742 also 30-06 and a 788 in .222. Oh Can't forget the two Nylons ...one the classic 66 and the Model 11 bolt action. All have been wonderful hunting companions and put many a Sunday dinner on the table.
 
If a company goes out of business, what happens to their patents? It would be great if someone could buy the old designs and bring back the best ones, and maybe even make some improvements. Not just for Remington, but it would be great to get a brand new alloy break-top H&R .22, and many other designs you don't see any more with modern updates.
Patents expire after 20 years. Pretty much all the old designs are not protected by patents any longer and could be made by anyone. My guess is that the problem with the old designs is that they require craftsmen to build them, and the fitting costs would be too high for the modern consumer. Whatever people may think of how "cheap" things were in the old days, the dollar values were low, but put in terms of what people were earning, guns are cheaper now (with the exception of possibly military surplus).
 
Cerebus...
followed by Steward, a.k.a Steward Health Care.
Freedom Group, Cerebus, Steward only care about profit and nothing else. They buy failing companies, cut the existing staff, and either make it profitable and keep it, or sell it. Plan B is to sell it if not profitable or shut it down.
They also despise firearms and I believe are connected to Soros.
 
Another boneheaded cut and paste expert. The google thing only covers patents that are 20 years. That is not all the types we are talking about. Many are not twenty years.

Prick face.
Please, enlighten me as to which patents would last longer, wise one. Utility patents are 20 years. Design patents are less. It's not just google telling me this, the IP&S counsel at my work explained this to me as a preliminary step to preparing a filing. The whole point of patents is that they protect an invention for a short period with the guarantee that the invention covered by the patent will be turned over to the public when the patent expires. Things that companies don't want to disclose get covered by trade secrets instead.
 
When I was looking for a pump shotgun a few years ago I couldn't for the life of me figure out why anyone would get an 870 over a 500 and I still can't. I did have a Remington once though - an R1 - and the product was nearly as bad as the customer service. Only Remington I'd buy would be a GI 1911.

I have the 870 Home Defender, which at the time, was highly recommended. Although if I take up shooting clays/skeeting, I'll probably sell it....does this mean the company moves to Japan like Winchester?
 
I have the 870 Home Defender, which at the time, was highly recommended. Although if I take up shooting clays/skeeting, I'll probably sell it....does this mean the company moves to Japan like Winchester?

Kind of a weird necro.

Winchester never "moved" to Japan. Winchester outsourced production of some guns to Miroku in the 60s. Winchester still existed in New Haven up until their recent acquisition by FN. FN now runs Winchester from within the same corporate park in Utah as Browning. Browning and FN have always been partners to varying degrees since JMB's patent of the FN 1899 and Auto-5.

Remington has already been outsourcing guns, like the 798, which Zastava in Serbia made for Remington. Because guns like the 798 were a flop, Remington hasn't outsourced guns in awhile. Remington could outsource production to Turkish manufacturers as a cost cutting measure. Turkey is where most inexpensive, decent shotguns are coming from these days. But "could" and "will" are two vastly different concepts.

Remington's been in a market position quandary since Cerberus bought Remington. Remington has to figure out whether it wants to sell guns to everyone, like they did during their heyday in the 1940s-1980s, or whether they want to be a higher end option in comparison to Mossberg, Turkish guns, etc. Remington's reputation is pretty much gone.
 
Kind of a weird necro.

Winchester never "moved" to Japan. Winchester outsourced production of some guns to Miroku in the 60s. Winchester still existed in New Haven up until their recent acquisition by FN. FN now runs Winchester from within the same corporate park in Utah as Browning. Browning and FN have always been partners to varying degrees since JMB's patent of the FN 1899 and Auto-5.

Remington has already been outsourcing guns, like the 798, which Zastava in Serbia made for Remington. Because guns like the 798 were a flop, Remington hasn't outsourced guns in awhile. Remington could outsource production to Turkish manufacturers as a cost cutting measure. Turkey is where most inexpensive, decent shotguns are coming from these days. But "could" and "will" are two vastly different concepts.

Remington's been in a market position quandary since Cerberus bought Remington. Remington has to figure out whether it wants to sell guns to everyone, like they did during their heyday in the 1940s-1980s, or whether they want to be a higher end option in comparison to Mossberg, Turkish guns, etc. Remington's reputation is pretty much gone.

Weird but oddly well timed necro-post, from this morning



Firearms maker Remington Arms Co. filed for bankruptcy protection for the second time since 2018, weighed down by more debt than it can repay even as fearful Americans buy more guns than ever.

Remington, which supplies weapons for hunting, shooting sports, law enforcement and the military, sought chapter 11 protection and will try to sell its business at a time when civil unrest and worries about personal safety have driven firearm sales to record highs.

The chapter 11 petition in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Decatur, Ala., marks Remington's second restructuring since 2018, when it filed for chapter 11 and transferred ownership to investors including Franklin Resources Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co.


Remington has been searching for potential buyers and was in talks to sell itself out of bankruptcy to the Navajo Nation before negotiations collapsed in recent weeks, leaving the company without a lead bidder, or stalking horse, in place.


The manufacturer's firearms and ammunition businesses could be sold off separately, according to a person familiar with the matter.


Despite shedding roughly $775 million in debt in 2018, the company has struggled with high interest costs and has faced litigation related to the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, in which the killer used a Bushmaster rifle manufactured by Remington.

Meanwhile, gun-control activists have put pressure on investors and retailers to reconsider their ties to the firearms industry, particularly following the 2018 school shooting in Parkland, Fla.


The industry's fortunes tend to rise and fall based on the country's political climate. Under former President Obama, firearm sales grew as enthusiasts worried about potential regulations. Sales softened after President Trump took office pledging to defend gun rights.

Demand has skyrocketed again since March as measured by Federal Bureau of Investigation background checks, a proxy for sales. Background checks in June for civilians seeking licenses to carry guns were the highest since the FBI began conducting them 20 years ago.

Gun stores, which have largely stayed open during the Covid-19 pandemic, are selling to many first-time buyers worried about personal safety over the civil unrest that followed the killing of George Floyd in police custody and the ensuing movement to reduce police funding.


While many types of retail inventory have plummeted in value during the pandemic -- such as apparel, fashion accessories and footwear -- firearms are holding up relatively well, according to appraisal and liquidation experts.

But buoyant sales at the counter don't immediately flow to manufacturers like Remington, which traces its roots to 1816 and makes firearms at facilities in Ilion, N.Y., and Huntsville, Ala. Some firearms companies also face supply-chain issues that have been exacerbated by the pandemic, making it difficult to ramp up production to meet growing demand.
 
Do I see an NES group buy in the near future?

Nope.... I understood the original problems when Remington was bought and placed into an impossible position from which that they would never recover. It is an interesting story.

Rem is dead, dragged under the water on purpose. Only machine tools and hard goods will survive at $0.01 or less on the dollar.

History below read the later years:


I bought one of their 20 Ga Premier Italian made O/U shotguns, it took me a year to correct the stock pitch so it would not kick like a bull! It shoots well now but looks stupid. I also removed the auto safety that is easily reinserted.
 
Nope.... I understood the original problems when Remington was bought and placed into an impossible position from which that they would never recover. It is an interesting story.

Rem is dead, dragged under the water on purpose. Only machine tools and hard goods will survive at $0.01 or less on the dollar.

History below read the later years:


I bought one of their 20 Ga Premier Italian made O/U shotguns, it took me a year to correct the stock pitch so it would not kick like a bull! It shoots well now but looks stupid. I also removed the auto safety that is easily reinserted.

Well, I'm sure their name/logo will still be worth something. Like so many other historic companies their name and rights will be sold to some entrepreneur and something small may start up bearing the name.
 
Even if shitlery was elected, that long term growth (eg, the post sandy-hook boom) wasn't sustainable. 8 years of Obama + sandy hook etc bullshit had basically drained a lot of bank accounts. After a point the market gets saturated and sales retreat.
Imagine the industry marketing meeting a few months ago:

A: Well, if gun sales to gun-lovers have bottomed out,​
let's just sell guns to gun-haters.​
B: How are you going to make gun-haters buy guns?​
A: Hold my Perrier and watch this...​
protest_newyork.jpg
 
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