Remington not passing the standard

r2nailer

r2nailer

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Hope this isn't the wrong area.....

I have a shot placement or grouping problem.
2 months ago I found a rifle I been looking for for like ever.
It's a used Remington Model Seven in .308. For those unfamiliar with the 7,
its a lightweight 700 with a short pull (youth) and 16" barrel. With a syn stock
it weighs like 5lbs. For me its a perfect VT deer rifle.

Well offf to the range I go with a box of my favorite 180 gr hunting ammo.
I put the first round down at 50 yds and hit the paper. adjusted the scope
and put the next an inch high, perfect.
Set a traget at 100 yds and the first was a little low, made the adjustment
and the next was 1 inch from X. Good enough to kill with.
I loaded three rounds and with a clean target put them all down the pipe.
Now the results were crappy two close and one 2" right and a little high.
The more I fired the worse it got.
So I thought maybe this light barrel can't handle it so I shot 1 waited. Shot another and waited. Well the results were the same crap.
So I went home and cleaned the crap out of the barrel. I couldn't get
the copper off the lands so I dragged out my Foul Out II. After hours it
cleaned up ok. Bak to the range and the results were still crappy.
I also noticed that half of the recessed crown had no finish on it.


I have had 700's and my A bolt that will out shoot this little baby all day long.
So now where can I look to improve my group?
Sould I be looking at recrown? rebarrel?
Know any good rifle smiths?/
Steve
 
r2nailer said:
Hope this isn't the wrong area.....

I have a shot placement or grouping problem.
2 months ago I found a rifle I been looking for for like ever.
It's a used Remington Model Seven in .308. For those unfamiliar with the 7,
its a lightweight 700 with a short pull (youth) and 16" barrel. With a syn stock
it weighs like 5lbs. For me its a perfect VT deer rifle.

Well offf to the range I go with a box of my favorite 180 gr hunting ammo.
I put the first round down at 50 yds and hit the paper. adjusted the scope
and put the next an inch high, perfect.
Set a traget at 100 yds and the first was a little low, made the adjustment
and the next was 1 inch from X. Good enough to kill with.
I loaded three rounds and with a clean target put them all down the pipe.
Now the results were crappy two close and one 2" right and a little high.
The more I fired the worse it got.
So I thought maybe this light barrel can't handle it so I shot 1 waited. Shot another and waited. Well the results were the same crap.
So I went home and cleaned the crap out of the barrel. I couldn't get
the copper off the lands so I dragged out my Foul Out II. After hours it
cleaned up ok. Bak to the range and the results were still crappy.
I also noticed that half of the recessed crown had no finish on it.


I have had 700's and my A bolt that will out shoot this little baby all day long.
So now where can I look to improve my group?
Sould I be looking at recrown? rebarrel?
Know any good rifle smiths?/
Steve
Click to expand...
Assuming that the bedding screws are tight, I can almost guarantee that your problem is caused by "barrel whip". When a firearm discharges, the barrel flexes slightly. Heavy barrels are stiffer and more consistent, because there is less flex. Mountain rifles and so-called youth-models have slender barrels to maintain a very low weight, so this is the trade-off. They were designed to fire off a round or two out of a cold barrel during realistic hunting conditions, not many rounds at a range session. Personally, I wouldn't worry. With the groups that you are getting, you should be able to easily hit the 8" kill zone on a deer-sized target out to 200 yards with your rifle.
 
I wouldn't have thought that.
I forgot to mention that during the troubleshooting I did remove that little
piece (tit) at the end of the forgrip that touches the barell. But it made
no change.
Steve
 
r2nailer said:
I also noticed that half of the recessed crown had no finish on it.
Steve
Click to expand...

Cleaning up the crown might help - but it is a light barrel. If it were mine (if Remington ever made a lefty Model 7 [sad]), I'd try different ammo, try cleaning the crown up (Link or Link), bed the receiver and free-float the barrel, and if it doesn't like free floating add a pressure pad up front.

It may be that you've reached the limits of that rifle, too. What might be the first question to answer is how much effort do you want to put in to this one?
 
KMM696 - have you contacted Remy about a custom lefty? I'm looking for a lefty 308 bolt gun now - the Savages just aren't quite right somehow.

RFWAVELENGTH - could it be that the bore is too clean? I was talking with a member at the club and he talked about the accuracy of one of his rifles went in the crapper when cleaned it - it took about 300 rounds before it tightened up again.

Shooting it more might help you understand how it reacts - cold barrel, etc.
 
Sprocket said:
KMM696 - have you contacted Remy about a custom lefty? I'm looking for a lefty 308 bolt gun now - the Savages just aren't quite right somehow.
Click to expand...

No, I haven't. I bought a lefty Savage 10FLP a couple years back, and now I've got 5 lefty Savages - 2 rimfire, 4 centerfire. I appreciate how easy the Savage is to work on at home without a machine shop. Not necessarily pretty rifles, though they're usually quite accurate. The action can feel rough without work, and there is room for improvement on the factory rifle.

Out of curiousity, what didn't you like about the Savages?
 
I don't want to hijack the thread but here goes...

I went up to KTP to handle a bunch of rifles - the pad on one stock was the same material as the squishy stress balls - you could squeeze the sides and feel the plastic stock - felt really cheap and crappy. I didn't dry fire but they all have the accu-trigger which I trust is sweet out of the box. I've read about the various QC type problems - loosening screws, etc so I know the fixes there.

The actions were smooth enough and with some polishing would probably run smoother - the Remy actions feel smoother to start with and overall feel more like a nicer gun, fit & finish, metal to stock, etc. To handle a Savage, then Remy, then Win 70 was like driving my POS Jeep, then a new car, then a Merc Benz...

I handled briefly some older Savages at Reilys - the actions were tight and smooth - ugly but very nice - more of a "last call" look rather than not.

I'm trying to keep an open mind and will read your write up - jury is still out though
 
well the ammo is a real option. In the past I would take a new (to me) gun to
the range with 4 or 5 different bullets. And always ended up with the 180 gr.
this time being cheap cuz hunting ammo is $$$$. I just grabbed a box of 180's
that ALL my other hunting guns like. So I guess some 150 gr and other
than Core locks is the next logical step
 
The tupperware Savage stocks are pretty awful but put an HS or Mcmillan stock on one and you have a very accurate rifle that will compete with any Remington production rifle. Even with the factory stocks they shoot damn good.
 
Couple of thoughts:

  • Reloading isn't just about making ammo cheap. It's all about being able to make MORE ACCURATE ammo than factory ammo, for at least as cheap as factory ammo. If you're going on a $15,000 hunting trip of a lifetime, and would get one shot, you going to buy that one round at Walmart? Or, make it yourself, and KNOW that it's accurate?
  • So, maybe think about reloading. That's when I started reloading, back in the early 70's, when I bought my first hunting rifle, and wanted it to shoot more accurately (without having to tweak the gun at all).
  • My reloads were incredibly more accurate than any factory ammo.
  • Tread on the gun tweak ideas gently. Some of those won't allow you to "go backwards" when done. You might ends up worse off than you started.
  • Check with a reputable gun smith, and have them give you some professional advice. I like hearing from gunsmiths (and mechanics when dealing with my car, for example) when they have figured out working solutions for your specific gun (or car).
 
Different guns often prefer different ammo.

1st of all I would think that 140-150 grains would be superiour for a deer round out of a 308. Definitely flatter shooting and probably more accurate as well.

Get 5 or 6 different brands of ammo and shoot for groups. Dont worry about where the point of impact is. Aim for the center and only worry about the group size. Once you find the ammo your gun likes and groups well with then move the sights to get it to hit where you want.

I had to do the same thing with my .300 mag. Some rounds it hated but it loved the hornaday light magnums 150 grain interbonds. It also liked the Fed premium with 150 grain trophy bonded bear claws. Both those shot sub 1" groups for me with the Hornadays being sub 3/4 inches. The Core locks were more like crap locks out of this gun.
 
You will be surprised how much your groups will tighten up when you reload. When I get back into hunting serious again I will handload. I witnessed how damn accurate a rifle can be with them.

I have 2 other witnesses to this shot by a friend.

300-400 yds (across open farm land) at dusk and my friend is raising hell that he missed where he was aiming at by about 1/2 an inch!
 
r2nailer said:
Are there any reputable rifle smiths in eastern Ma.?
Click to expand...

You can waste money on the rifle, or you can find out which load it actually likes.

I love it when people ask for advice when they already have a preconceived notion of the fix and won't listen.

It's your money, go ahead and waste it.
 

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