Replacement From Ruger - Do I need to do a FA-10 for Old Gun?

[Gastrok]

Ruger is replacing my LC9 that dropped it’s firing pin (thread here: LC9 Firing Pin Fell Out...). They’re sending the replacement to my local FFL and it should be there today or tomorrow. I asked them if we needed to do anything about the transfer of the broken gun to them and they said they were taking care of the paperwork with the ATF, notifying them that the gun will be destroyed.

Do I also need to fill out an FA-10 for the LC-9 I no-longer have?

 

[Len-2A Training]

According to Jason Guida, you are supposed to "unregister" the one you don't have. Probably easier to do this online with their e-FA10.

You need to register the new one. Sounds like the dealer will handle that.

 

[glide]

I wasn't aware you could 'unregister' a gun.

I received a replacement from Glock a few years back due to a cracked frame. They shipped directly to me and I simply filled out a new FA-10. As far as MA knows, the gun which was destroyed still exists. Is this just a nasty by-product of the E-FA10 system?

 

[soam]

If my understanding is correct, this is a similar issue to the one where you sell a handgun to someone out of state through an FFL in their state - as far as MA is concerned the gun is still "in your name". It's just that in this case, you're "selling" the gun to Ruger. As far as I know there's no way to make the gun not "in your name" as far as the FRB is concerned.

I would try and get some sort of paperwork from Ruger stating that the gun has been destroyed, in the unlikely event it ever comes up.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I wasn't aware you could 'unregister' a gun.

I received a replacement from Glock a few years back due to a cracked frame. They shipped directly to me and I simply filled out a new FA-10. As far as MA knows, the gun which was destroyed still exists. Is this just a nasty by-product of the E-FA10 system?

Not according to Jason. He insists that his reading of MGL REQUIRES the FA-10 since at least 1998 and failure to do so could lead to criminal prosecution.

Glock did it right and there is no need for FFLs to be involved.

If my understanding is correct, this is a similar issue to the one where you sell a handgun to someone out of state through an FFL in their state - as far as MA is concerned the gun is still "in your name". It's just that in this case, you're "selling" the gun to Ruger. As far as I know there's no way to make the gun not "in your name" as far as the FRB is concerned.

I would try and get some sort of paperwork from Ruger stating that the gun has been destroyed, in the unlikely event it ever comes up.

True, unless you "unregister" it via FA-10 it will always be in your name . . . even if you sell to a MA Dealer, the FA-10 is required (according to Jason) . . . many may sell via Gunbroker and thus no MA record except if you provide it.

Yes it can be taken off your name. Attend one of my legal seminars and you'll learn more about it.

 

[Gastrok]

I've not done a FA-10 before, so pardon the dumb question, but I just fill out the eform submit it, and MA has been notified that the gun is no-longer mine? Is it really that simple?

 

[Len-2A Training]

I've not done an e-FA-10 before but yes, that is how I understand it.

If I were using paper forms, I would fill out the gun info and my info, check the appropriate box on upper left and Mail it in.

 

[Kevlar]

According to Jason Guida, you are supposed to "unregister" the one you don't have.

If I were using paper forms, I would fill out the gun info and my info, check the appropriate box on upper left and Mail it in.

Which box would that be?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Which box would that be?

My best guess would be "Loss".

I'll readily admit that I was so blown away when Jason told me that we MUST do this (that it was a criminal offense not to do so) that I didn't ask which box to use. I didn't have a "new form" on paper at that time (I only have a PDF someone posted here of the new form now) and have never used the e-FA-10 to see what the form looks like online.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I have a feeling if you submitted an FA-10 that had "Loss" Checked off every school in Massachusetts would be on lock down

And that is a bad thing why?

I'd just staple a copy to my Bill of Sale (to dealer)/Email/Letter from mfr.

If ever questioned, just tell them that this is what CJIS/FRB wants us to do.

 

[jaypap]

Not according to Jason. He insists that his reading of MGL REQUIRES the FA-10 since at least 1998 and failure to do so could lead to criminal prosecution.

Len, if ATF removes your name from the weapon, after the manufacturer says they destroyed it and you register the new one by FA-10.

What criminal law would you be breaking?

Non possesion of a gun that no longer exists?

Just curious.

 

[PATRON]

I would ask Ruger to send me a letter stating that they destroyed the firearm. So if we sell a gun to a dealer and have to do a FA-10 would that fall under the four a year we are allowed to sell.So when you do a transfer at a dealer,you would have to do a FA-10.

 

[swampy]

Not according to Jason. He insists that his reading of MGL REQUIRES the FA-10 since at least 1998 and failure to do so could lead to criminal prosecution.

Glock did it right and there is no need for FFLs to be involved.




True, unless you "unregister" it via FA-10 it will always be in your name . . . even if you sell to a MA Dealer, the FA-10 is required (according to Jason) . . . many may sell via Gunbroker and thus no MA record except if you provide it.

Yes it can be taken off your name. Attend one of my legal seminars and you'll learn more about it.

Not to hijack the thread but can you/should you do this to all the guns registered to you if you move out of state? Is there a way to check what is registered to you?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len, if ATF removes your name from the weapon, after the manufacturer says they destroyed it and you register the new one by FA-10.

What criminal law would you be breaking?

Non possession of a gun that no longer exists?

Just curious.

ATF database is not accessible to CJIS or local LEOs except in very rare circumstances.

Jason claims that the law that requires filing FA-10s on acquisitions/dispositions ALSO requires filing them when you sell them to a dealer, lose them, etc.

I would ask Ruger to send me a letter stating that they destroyed the firearm. So if we sell a gun to a dealer and have to do a FA-10 would that fall under the four a year we are allowed to sell.So when you do a transfer at a dealer,you would have to do a FA-10.

No it would not impact the four PRIVATE TRANSFERS allowed/calendar year.

Not to hijack the thread but can you/should you do this to all the guns registered to you if you move out of state? Is there a way to check what is registered to you?

When I move out of MA, MA can go F' themselves. I would notify as required by MGL that I moved and that's all.

Yes, if you want to pay $20 or $25, file out the form and wait weeks to find out what CJIS THINKS you own, have at it. I wouldn't bother wasting my money like that.

 

[exo]

So how the heck are you supposed to unregister a gun then? If you trade a gun in at a gun shop, there's no new FA-10 filed on it unless and until it is sold again to another MA resident.

 

[Len-2A Training]

So how the heck are you supposed to unregister a gun then? If you trade a gun in at a gun shop, there's no new FA-10 filed on it unless and until it is sold again to another MA resident.

Read what I posted above.

 

[neEEGuru]

Boating accident.

 

[exo]

Read what I posted above.

I read what you wrote, it's the mechanics of it that I don't understand. The FA-10 form isn't set up to record a sale from an individual to a gun shop, at least not that I can see.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I read what you wrote, it's the mechanics of it that I don't understand. The FA-10 form isn't set up to record a sale from an individual to a gun shop, at least not that I can see.

OK, I understand your point. I'm just reporting what I was told. In this case, since it takes the gun out of your name in the CJIS database, it's not a bad thing. You could report it as a "sale" with just the name and city of the dealer (this is what Jason told me) and they will "autofill" the rest of the dealer info if you don't have it (his MA Dealer License number) and he said it won't count against your 4 Private Sales/year.

 

[ARV]

Not according to Jason. He insists that his reading of MGL REQUIRES the FA-10 since at least 1998 and failure to do so could lead to criminal prosecution.

Requires the FA-10 for what? the gun sent to the manufacturer?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Requires the FA-10 for what? the gun sent to the manufacturer?

If a different S/N gun is returned to you . . . yes! You report old S/N as a "loss" and new one as a "registration". I'm not sure what is so hard to comprehend here!!

However, I personally don't care what people do or don't do. I am just reporting what those in power want/expect us to do. What each person decides to do with that information is up to them and I can respect that.

 

[ARV]

If a different S/N gun is returned to you . . . yes! You report old S/N as a "loss" and new one as a "registration". I'm not sure what is so hard to comprehend here!!

However, I personally don't care what people do or don't do. I am just reporting what those in power want/expect us to do. What each person decides to do with that information is up to them and I can respect that.

I wasnt sure if you were referring to the NEW gun sent TO him, or the one he was sending back. A mix of a 5% reading comprehension fail, and 95% Mass law fail.

 

[Terminator03]

I wasnt sure if you were referring to the NEW gun sent TO him, or the one he was sending back. A mix of a 5% reading comprehension fail, and 95% Mass law fail.

From reading this thread as well as ANY time the MGL stuff comes up, I'd say you are in really good company!

 

[glide]

If a different S/N gun is returned to you . . . yes! You report old S/N as a "loss" and new one as a "registration". I'm not sure what is so hard to comprehend here!!

However, I personally don't care what people do or don't do. I am just reporting what those in power want/expect us to do. What each person decides to do with that information is up to them and I can respect that.

99.9% of gun owners do NOT know there is a mechanism in place to deal with these types of situations. And in my mind there still isn't. Someone is just thumping their chest again.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

99.9% of gun owners do NOT know there is a mechanism in place to deal with these types of situations. And in my mind there still isn't. Someone is just thumping their chest again.

We have a winner. Jack.

 

[uncle griz]

How about when a gun is turned in on a buyback program that has "no questions asked" ? There is no paper work....just a voucher for cash givin. ......and of course there is the question that the turn in gun may be taken and re-sold or kept by someone....instead of being destroyed..

 

[Len-2A Training]

uncle griz, same answer as above.

 

[glide]

How about when a gun is turned in on a buyback program that has "no questions asked" ? There is no paper work....just a voucher for cash givin. ......and of course there is the question that the turn in gun may be taken and re-sold or kept by someone....instead of being destroyed..

Good question. Someone tell Jason to feel free to monitor for compliance:

http://www.heraldnews.com/news/x100...ce-Rotary-collaborate-for-gun-by-back-program

 

[ARV]

“We started in 1994,” said the Rev. Robert Lawrence, one of the organizers. “We’re 24 guns short of 3,000 that we’ve bought back. We want to turn the 3,000th gun over to Michael Dukakis, who helped us kick the first one off.”

Does he have a license?

 

[Parker Duofold]

I just went through the same thing. I don't care what "Jason" says, there is no way on the eFA10 form to report a returned to mfg. and then destroyed firearm. My SR1911 was replaced by Ruger last month and the original selling dealer issued a new FA10 on the new serial number. I sent "the State" a letter saying I didn't own the old SR1911 with the serial number noted, and enclosed a copy of the invoice from Ruger showing the exchange.

I'm sure the paperwork was appropriately filed away by the "Commonwealth" (sure) but at least I feel I have CMA.