Required to show LTC in MA. Question

[blindfire]

I was wondering about what the legal requirements are if a LEO approaches you and is able to see that you are carrying concealed (printing, shirt rides up, etc).

I assume you are required to show your LTC if asked, correct?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Yes, but under Commonwealth v. Couture, the mere spotting of a gun does not give cause to conclude unlawful activity or justify checking your papers. In practice, this is ignored, but can provide a court defense to someone without an LTC peacefully carrying.

 

[Glockster30]

Yes, but under Commonwealth v. Couture, the mere spotting of a gun does not give cause to conclude unlawful activity or justify checking your papers. In practice, this is ignored, but can provide a court defense to someone without an LTC peacefully carrying.

Tell that to a former member of NES (former, because he hasn't posted in 2 years). He was on his way to NS Firearms (no less), in Middleton. On the way, he stopped at a diner on Rte. 114 to eat. An off-duty cop pulled in alongside him and noticed a Glock tupperware box left on the front seat of the members car.

Four or 5 police cars later, they let him go after 45 minutes. In that 45 minutes, they took his carry weapon, cuffed him, they ransacked and turned his car inside out, throwing everything in the car including a baby seat onto the side of the road.

The Glock tupperware box was EMPTY!

 

[kalash]

Tell that to a former member of NES (former, because he hasn't posted in 2 years). He was on his way to NS Firearms (no less), in Middleton. On the way, he stopped at a diner on Rte. 114 to eat. An off-duty cop pulled in alongside him and noticed a Glock tupperware box left on the front seat of the members car.

Four or 5 police cars later, they let him go after 45 minutes. In that 45 minutes, they took his carry weapon, cuffed him, they ransacked and turned his car inside out, throwing everything in the car including a baby seat onto the side of the road.

The Glock tupperware box was EMPTY!

That's insane!

 

[rwl1955]

Tell that to a former member of NES (former, because he hasn't posted in 2 years). He was on his way to NS Firearms (no less), in Middleton. On the way, he stopped at a diner on Rte. 114 to eat. An off-duty cop pulled in alongside him and noticed a Glock tupperware box left on the front seat of the members car.

Four or 5 police cars later, they let him go after 45 minutes. In that 45 minutes, they took his carry weapon, cuffed him, they ransacked and turned his car inside out, throwing everything in the car including a baby seat onto the side of the road.



The Glock tupperware box was EMPTY!

*******
Hope he had a good lawyer

 

[Tackdriver VillenTactical]

The long and short answer to your question is yes, if a policeman demands or asks for your license to carry you are required to show it to him. As far as the above posts with regard to this empty Glock box, that doesn't add up and there has to be more to the story.

Dave

 

[amm5061]

Tell that to a former member of NES (former, because he hasn't posted in 2 years). He was on his way to NS Firearms (no less), in Middleton. On the way, he stopped at a diner on Rte. 114 to eat. An off-duty cop pulled in alongside him and noticed a Glock tupperware box left on the front seat of the members car.

Four or 5 police cars later, they let him go after 45 minutes. In that 45 minutes, they took his carry weapon, cuffed him, they ransacked and turned his car inside out, throwing everything in the car including a baby seat onto the side of the road.

The Glock tupperware box was EMPTY!

It's all for the kids, you know! We gotta get those evil Glock cases off of the streets!

 

[blindfire]

Yes, but under Commonwealth v. Couture, the mere spotting of a gun does not give cause to conclude unlawful activity or justify checking your papers. In practice, this is ignored, but can provide a court defense to someone without an LTC peacefully carrying.

Thanks. Good info to know.

And the more you know...

Yo Joe!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Tell that to a former member of NES (former, because he hasn't posted in 2 years). He was on his way to NS Firearms (no less), in Middleton. On the way, he stopped at a diner on Rte. 114 to eat. An off-duty cop pulled in alongside him and noticed a Glock tupperware box left on the front seat of the members car.

Four or 5 police cars later, they let him go after 45 minutes. In that 45 minutes, they took his carry weapon, cuffed him, they ransacked and turned his car inside out, throwing everything in the car including a baby seat onto the side of the road.

The Glock tupperware box was EMPTY!

The long and short answer to your question is yes, if a policeman demands or asks for your license to carry you are required to show it to him. As far as the above posts with regard to this empty Glock box, that doesn't add up and there has to be more to the story.

Dave

Dave, there "SHOULD" be more to the story, but some officers go ape-shit when they think a non-LEO has a gun. I find this story completely believable even if there is nothing more to it. Sad, illegal, but they will get away with it more often than not.

 

[AmeriKHAN]

Tell that to a former member of NES (former, because he hasn't posted in 2 years). He was on his way to NS Firearms (no less), in Middleton. On the way, he stopped at a diner on Rte. 114 to eat. An off-duty cop pulled in alongside him and noticed a Glock tupperware box left on the front seat of the members car.

Four or 5 police cars later, they let him go after 45 minutes. In that 45 minutes, they took his carry weapon, cuffed him, they ransacked and turned his car inside out, throwing everything in the car including a baby seat onto the side of the road.

The Glock tupperware box was EMPTY!

This is why I keep everything firearm related in my trunk. Targets, guns locked in cases, and ammo. Out of sight, out of mind. If they ask tell um yes and show LTC. If they wanna search the trunk, POLITELY deny them. "I'm sorry sir, but I don't consent to the search" not "I know my rights! Go get a warrant!".

 

[rwl1955]

so if a cop sees my NRA or Glock sticker on my car/motorcycle he/she can pull me over and search my vehicle?

 

[Ringworm]

The long and short answer to your question is yes, if a policeman demands or asks for your license to carry you are required to show it to him. As far as the above posts with regard to this empty Glock box, that doesn't add up and there has to be more to the story.

Dave

Why does there have to be more to the story? Cops aren't your friends, and they generally do what they want to justify their existence. Up to, and including f**king up your day because they saw condiments (mace) or tupperware boxes with icky words on them.

 

[djmefitz]

Tell that to a former member of NES (former, because he hasn't posted in 2 years). He was on his way to NS Firearms (no less), in Middleton. On the way, he stopped at a diner on Rte. 114 to eat. An off-duty cop pulled in alongside him and noticed a Glock tupperware box left on the front seat of the members car.

Four or 5 police cars later, they let him go after 45 minutes. In that 45 minutes, they took his carry weapon, cuffed him, they ransacked and turned his car inside out, throwing everything in the car including a baby seat onto the side of the road.

The Glock tupperware box was EMPTY!

Id see a good opportunity for a lawyer

 

[amm5061]

Why does there have to be more to the story? Cops aren't your friends, and they generally do what they want to justify their existence. Up to, and including f**king up your day because they saw condiments (mace) or tupperware boxes with icky words on them.

Pepper spray is 100% legal to carry without any license if you're over 18 now. It still amazes me how many people still don't know about this.


And all my fun stuff is in my trunk and out of sight exactly because, like Len, I have no trouble believing that a bad cop would decide to jack someone up over an empty Glock case sitting in a car. Plus it's one less incentive to have someone smash your window.

Id see a good opportunity for a lawyer

Qualified immunity. Cops will claim probable cause and you won't be able to sue.

 

[AmeriKHAN]

so if a cop sees my NRA or Glock sticker on my car/motorcycle he/she can pull me over and search my vehicle?

No. But a pistol case without a lock on it in the passenger seat is unless its empty. Assuming this guy had a Glock case, they should have opened it, seen it was empty and left him alone.

 

[evalance]

No. But a pistol case without a lock on it in the passenger seat is unless its empty. Assuming this guy had a Glock case, they should have opened it, seen it was empty and left him alone.

what if you have a handgun on the passenger seat or middle console ? it's not illegal, loaded or unloaded , I suppose it all depends if one wants to go trough the effort of going for a lawsuit or not

 

[rwl1955]

so if a cop sees my NRA or Glock sticker on my car/motorcycle he/she can pull me over and search my vehicle?

 

[Len-2A Training]

No. But a pistol case without a lock on it in the passenger seat is unless its empty. Assuming this guy had a Glock case, they should have opened it, seen it was empty and left him alone.

NO they shouldn't have opened it!!

 

[AmeriKHAN]

NO they shouldn't have opened it!!

You're right. Should have said it was empty and told them to go get a warrant.

 

[TomMontana]

Tell that to a former member of NES (former, because he hasn't posted in 2 years). He was on his way to NS Firearms (no less), in Middleton. On the way, he stopped at a diner on Rte. 114 to eat. An off-duty cop pulled in alongside him and noticed a Glock tupperware box left on the front seat of the members car.

Four or 5 police cars later, they let him go after 45 minutes. In that 45 minutes, they took his carry weapon, cuffed him, they ransacked and turned his car inside out, throwing everything in the car including a baby seat onto the side of the road.

The Glock tupperware box was EMPTY!

That's awful. If he locked the box with an unloaded gun inside, could he be charged with anything while he's in the diner and the box is in plain sight? In this scenario, is it considered transport or storage?

 

[AmeriKHAN]

what if you have a handgun on the passenger seat or middle console ? it's not illegal, loaded or unloaded , I suppose it all depends if one wants to go trough the effort of going for a lawsuit or not

Yea. The transport law only covers loaded handguns and unloaded rifles and shotguns.

Handguns under a Class A License: “No person carrying a loaded firearm (i.e. handgun) under a Class A license to carry firearms... shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person.” (Chapter 140, section 131C)
Large Capacity rifles and shotguns: “No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B License... shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded, and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container.” (Chapter 140, section 131C)
Rifles and Shotguns: “No person... shall have in his possession or under his control in or on any vehicle or aircraft a loaded shotgun or rifle.. Chapter 131, section 63

 

[LLF]

You have to remember this is Massachusetts. There is an extremely irrational mood in the state right now with regard to firearms. If you have a gun-related item like a manufacturer's case with markings in view then you may very well get harassed. This also goes for ammo boxes, rifle cases, anything that even looks like it has anything to do with a gun. Don't expect the AG to defend your rights! You could hire a lawyer and fight the case and you would probably win. But it would probably cost you at least $1000 and take up your whole day, maybe two, and create potential problems at license renewal time. And what if the PD "loses" the gun(s) they confiscated?
Bottom line: Keep ALL gun stuff in bags or under a blanket or in the trunk OUT OF SIGHT and take the $1000 you just saved... and buy yourself a nice gun!
Suggestion: I drive a crossover SUV with no trunk. When I transport handguns I use a plain black locking attache case. When I carry rifles around I use my brother-in-law's old hockey goalie gear bag with a padlock on the zippers.

 

[jhblaze1]

so if a cop sees my NRA or Glock sticker on my car/motorcycle he/she can pull me over and search my vehicle?

a cop can pull you over and search your vehicle for any reason or non at all. A whim is good enough. It's not hard to manufacture probable cause after the fact.

 

[Len-2A Training]

a cop can pull you over and search your vehicle for any reason or non at all. A whim is good enough. It's not hard to manufacture probable cause after the fact.

True, but doesn't make it legal.

Unless there is at least a pretext that the officer can allude to, it is very unlikely for almost any officer to do this, because if challenged, they will get in some sort of trouble.

 

[Waher]

Pepper spray is 100% legal to carry without any license if you're over 18 now. It still amazes me how many people still don't know about this.

Many cops don't know this and still confiscate.

 

[180 GRAIN FMJ]

True, but doesn't make it legal.

Unless there is at least a pretext that the officer can allude to, it is very unlikely for almost any officer to do this, because if challenged, they will get in some sort of trouble.

Creative report writing normally keeps them out of trouble.